Thetownend.com

It is being cited in some areas that the new owners are in it for the property and that STFC as a club will not benefit from any of the new income streams. If true (which we dont know at this stage) this is very worrying as we could end up like another Kassam paying to play in our own ground and not benefiting from any new revenue streams.

Fair play bart

Dont joke about it Macca- why else would a real estate property company be involved, they aint gonna want to plough any profits or revenue streams back into the club are they

STFC Bart - what made you come to such a staggering conclusion in your thread title ?

so is morgan at wolves going to turn molyneux into a redrow estate aswell

STFC Bart in world exclusive "Property developer to make money from property development"

 Not exactly a fair comparison is it.....the Wolves deal was done very publically,  and only happened becasue Morgan guaranteed 30 mill to the club.

 I know a lot of people are taking a wait and see stance, but the best time to express our concerns is probably now.   I don't think we should roll out the welcome mat for these new owners.

Its all speculation at the moment. The investors have been revealed anyway.....

They are here to TAKEOVER!

http://www2.truman.edu/~ramberg/teaching/jins362/simpsonsaliens.gif

Perhaps the worst thread I've ever read. For the love of god, can we at least give this takover time before we start slating the new set up.

1. He hasn't been involved in Redrow since 2000
2. He has guaranteed a £30m investment
3. If people are sceptical about the new owners plans given the lack of information released so far, they have every right to be so

If you are going to draw comparisons, at least make them fair ones.

 :nono:

   How long do you want....until our club is playing in some soulless flat pack stad out near Chippenham?

Thats pure bollocks specualtion Reg and you know it.

There are no plans for redevelopment available publicly yet, so until we know what the plans are, any comparisons anyone makes will be speculative and 'unfair'.

I think the concerns are valid but the pious attitude that this is like a particular situation and not another, because of this that or the other is blinkered and boring.

Why such negeativity regarding this? Can we not all give this thing a chance?

Not being negative as such but I wrote a while ago that if we think that someone is going to ride in on their shiny white horse, clear all of our debts, invest in the team to get us promoted and build us all a nice shiny new stadium all for their love of Swindon Town, I think a lot of people will be disappointed.

However, I stand to be corrected.

 :shake:

 The negativity comes about because of the lack of information....usually after a takeover some effort is made to explain to the fanbase,  plans etc.

 We've had nothing.

I think it's fair to say that Swindon fans are battered and bruised from too many off field shenanigans down the years. It's hard to give something another chance when it's slapped you across the face so many times.

Personally I'm guarded about the whole thing but not to the extent that I'm going to jump upon every minute detail (as I may have done in the past). I just want to get on with the football, but obviously when the future of the club is uncertain you're going to take an interest in that too,

Don't expect any information any time soon either, apparently the "new owners" aren't planning on making an appearance tomorrow either. Mike Diamandis will be in attendance though.

I'm not saying that our prays are going to be answered - I don't think any of us are that naive Worcester/Bart. All I'm saying is give this takeover a chance. We as Town fans are always too quick to slam things before they've been given an opportunity to pan out - perhaps justified because of the years of sh*te we've had to put up with. But just reserve judgement on this until the details have become clear. What if it is a good thing? You never know. If I genuininely was an investor coming into a club - and even if my intentions involve property development - the success of a football team is still paramount to the business venture. Anyone who thinks a property developer can come into a club and make money at the detriment of team affairs is bonkers - and if I was coming into this club as an investor reading this forum I'd wonder why I'd bothered.

FFS I might be wrong, but I'm a glass half empty kinda guy and this could be a good thing. For every Kassam there's a Morgan...

QED :roll:

I would imagine, though Reg, with the club in its current state, this takover isn't going to be something that can happen overnight - hence the lack of details. Patience is a virtue. Or something.

They were going to .. he was called Bill Power .. the fact that the Mikey D/Willses didnt sell to him says it all ...

Ok, so Kassam made a few quid, his footballing reputation is now in tatters and if Little's been involved in football before, I doubt he'd wanna take us down the same route. For what it's worth, living in Reading, I remember my mates saying exactly the same as we are now when Madejski took them over.

Look - this could turn out to be the best thing that happened to us, or it might not - right now none of us know the entirety of the deal and until then, we can not criticise. That's all I'm saying.

 :shock:

What property development company?  Has something been confirmed this morning because I've seen no trace of a property evelopment company being mentioned before.

The only concrete ties to development is the Czech law firm that acted for the buyers and only then there usual remit is buying property abroad.


It's all utter shoite as they say in Ireland!    :mrgreen:

 We are told that Arkaga has interests in property.

 This was flagged up weeks ago....OK some of us didn't believe it, but it seems to have happened.....how difficult in that time to have had a quick press conference, photo op and a few questions from local media hacks.

The Madejski scenario would be fantastic if it were replayed in Swindon, but I can't see it happening unfortunately.  Madejski is, to all intents, a philanthropist with an attachment to the town of Reading.  He's made his money, and now he's spending it.  He was never seeking to make a profit there; rather, he was looking to create a legacy for himself...and he's certainly done that.

I agree with juddie that we shouldn't shoot this investment down in flames straight away.  But given that they are motivated by something other than a love of STFC, we will need to scrutinise everything they do.

What, Bill power the QPR fan doing it for his lifelong love of STFC?

I respect BP as much as the next town fan, but lets not start getting all misty eyed about him and pretending he is something he isnt. If he had taken over the club and been highly successful both with the team and stadium development do you not think he might have been tempted to sell for a profit?  Not that theres anything wrong with that at all

:goodpost:

Thing is with the Madjeski scenario, despite putting a lot of money in if he sold now he would make a profit. That may not have been his aim at the start but its happened now. And despite my dislike for reading fair play to him, he's done a cracking job of turning a 2-bit club into a club that will probablly establish itself in the premiership now. In fact the way Reading have done it is pretty much the model that other clubs aspire to

At least you were told about his intentions BEFORE any sale went through. Don't know if you have noticed but there has been absolutely NOTHING from the new people, before, during or after the sale of the club.

No wonder some are sceptical, myself included.

 :shock:

Good post Colin.

It amazes me that the people that are so anti everything else are prepared to take Bill Power purely on trust.

As to the firm that has links with property development, so what? They're a multi national firm with their fingers in a lot of pies.

2+2 = THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!

What juddie said. Let's at least find out what/who we're dealing with before we start sounding the klaxons and lighting bonfires on the hilltops. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be asking the questions, trying to find out everything we can, and sounding warnings re a Kassam-style deal but it's a touch premature to be coming out with this kind of stuff, Bart.

We ( or rather Mike D) may have sold our soul to the devil. We don't know we just have to wait and see.

But we do know we would never have ended up with a decent ground redeveopment with Mike D in charge.

I would much rather take my chances (or at least , live in hope) with a professional property developer.

The town of Swindon should be desperate for a decent ground redevelopment , and the CG is a prime opportunity for a decent gateway to the town. We may not get it but we stand a much better chance without Mike D and friends ( in fact we stand a chance, where we didn't before). And maybe this lot will actually talk to the council and try and find a way forward instead of just pissing them off.

And what makes people think these guys will just jump on the back of the plan that was in somebody's head. They've probably talked to Mike D and friends, realised that they are nothing but  a bunch of complete amateurs and forgotten about their plans already.

None of us know what will happen, but maybe at last we have a glimmer of hope.

COME ON YOU REDS !!

I appreciate that some people will remain sceptical, I'm far from thinking everything is rosy and welcoming our new overlords with open arms, although giving Sturrock the funds to chase top quailty cattle is a good start. But we do need to know a lot more facts.

In all honesty there isnt much point in comparing the two scenarios. People can wish BP bought the club as much as they like, but it didnt happen and isnt going to. We have to deal with what has actually happened nof "what ifs"

As I've posted on another site, I've said all along it's got to be the ground redevelopment. It can't really be anything else. The problem I have is two fold. 1) This was set up by Diamandis, Wills (jnr) and chums, and as such has to be viewed with the utmost suspicion. (When did they last do anything right for STFC). 2) I can't see how or where they are going to have the size of development required to give the returns that their risk requires. Unlike Bill P,  and the fans consortium, they are probably not in it for the football. Bowden has already admitted that the TRUST plans were "flawed" because they didn't have enough housing (profits). But that is the only plan that is anywhere near acceptable for the local residents / Council etc. Covering the cricket club, and athletics track with houses isn't going to happen. So that leads us to look elsewhere, and we've already been to the Front Garden, and tip stad. The ONLY possible place I can think off is where the Bath Uni complex was planned. Failing that it's out off the borough, which is not a realistic option. My thoughts are that the new investors have been sold a pup, but given the time they spent in "due dilligence" I find that hard to believe too.
In short.. something doesn't add up.

    :goodpost:

At  times we do seem to have a number of fans who take up the

"this is a local club, for local people" kind of attitude, which is worrying.

Why?

 :shrug:

Because it makes the club look like the majority of our support wouldn't look out of place in Royston Vasey.

Still don't get your point - are you ambivalent to a move to Chippenham then?

Are you saying that people shouldn't worry if the Club decided to move?

Swindon >  :run: > Chippenham

Get yourself on the Supporters Bus trip to Hartlepool,it will confirm you fears 8)

Surely that's exactly what STFC is? That's what I see it as anyway, a local football club for the local community and surrounding areas?

Does that mean I'm no longer welcome?

Yes do one.

I'll get me coat.......................................

You never were welcome you freak :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

You're easily pleased.

Hope your missus is too.............

Worcester I think Yeovil gets my point.  I'm not making a political comment on moving to Chippenham, I'm just saying we have a few "locals" who would be most welcome at Tubbs' shop in the League of Gentlemen.

Hmm, Royston Vaysey, Rodbourne Cheney. Coincidence?

I get your point Jan,but I chose to ignore it to make a cheap dig at the old farmer types that follow the town everywhere on the supporters club bus 8)

she is.

i know

so is it fair that we can post jim littles intentions for stfc without hearing from him then is it ?

At risk of sounding picky, I don't think you create a legacy for yourself ?

Shoite again, I hadn't read that they had actually commented this morning.

Have you read their site particularly the section on real estate equity?



Fuck

That said as open as it gets I'm keeping the mind open until we hear what their plans are.  Given past events I can't see the council or the fans letting anyone do a 'Kassam'.  


http://www.arkagafund.com/real-estate-equity.html

Dazza, how can we sell anything we don't own?

We don't own the CG, we don't have any land or development to sell and lease back.

But an investor could buy the CG from the council, move the FC elsewhere and build mega luxury flats as a town centre gateway development.

And before anybody says it, the covenant can be bought out.

no shit

Yes but seems a very long way to go about things.  Why just buy the club so you can then buy the ground so that you can then go and sell it.

There is no doubt the new people will be in it to make some money but the whole property thing doesn't add up for me.  With them giving Sturrock money to invest in players it appears to me they want us to go for promotion which will no doubt make more money i.e TV revenue, bigger crowds, more merchandise sales etc.

The most interesting thing will still be if players are pushed on Sturrock or whether he will get the final say on them, this will have a big bearing on where we will be going as a club.

 Quite....the only thing preventing the previous mob going down this route, was they had no dosh.....

What Talk Talk said ^^  :D

I'm not going to go down the pessimistic route and assuming any investment is only here to milk a development.  But as the club have touted previously any development on the CG site would be owned by a conglomerate holding company including the council, developers and directors.  In theory that leaves assets such as hotels etc to be appropriately milked, sold or leased back.  Including the playing facilities back to the club.

Even abandoning the CG site you only have to look at other league clubs to see how football and leisure facilities opens the door at planning with perhaps Brighton’s dogging fields aside and McDon’s atrocious “No supermarket – No stadium” campaign being the most shameless example of using a Stadium as the driver for associated commercial development.

If I can't walk to the stadium passing numerous pubs depending on my route then I will take my support elsewhere.

Like where Ben ?  

Cant really pass pubs on the way to Supermarine - and Poxford seems a little extreme !!!

I'll just sit in the pub on match days....

 When the TipStad was being mooted,   I kind of worked out the nearest pub , would have been, what I still call the Even Swindon Hotel,  which is down Yeovil's way.....is it something naff like The Famous Ale House now?

  Anyway, across Mannington under GW way following the Ray..bit of a left then  right  onto the old M and SW junction line, and the job's a good un....bit shitty on a wet Tuesday in February mind.

  (PS there may be some dive out in western expansion technically closer, but that was discounted on the basis of not walking past it.)

Has anyone called it 'the western expansion' since 1978?!

   Can you tell your Ramleaze from your Middleleaze.....fucked if I can, so western expansion it is.

I live down that way as well. You are right it is the famous ale house, It keeps opening and shutting though due to lack of business. The Dolphin is where it is at!

Isn't that Phil King's pub ?

I can...Ramleaze ends where Middleleaze begins....use the band stand next to the village inn as your barometer Reg.
All built by Wimpeys...fuckin property developers.....
 :D

Having read Little's utterances, including keeping the Club in Swindon,ploughing money back, not necessarily redeveloping,not necessarily maximising an ongoing profit; I think the likelihood is that the investors want the Town to go back up the divisions,(with Sturrock) increase gates and revenue probably redevelop the Town End and Stratton Bank possibly trying for a favourable deal with the Council to do this, and increase the value of their investment by say a factor of four. Then they'll either cash in or their investment portfolio is fattened up with this larger investment.

If it works, not a bad return for 5years say of watching football! If it doesn't work that well, their investment is unlikely to reduce.

Just because there's been a lot of talk previously about redevelopment and relocation this isn't necessarily going to happen with the new owners. The're in charge now  and I think the're on the low cost route to multiplying their money.

Would this scenario be good for us as supporters. Well Yes!

I just don't see this being an option given the previous refusals for planning permission for uilding on the Stratton Bank. In principal it's a good idea - build a nice new end which fits in around the houses, and build a new Town End housing all sorts of wonderful business opportunities.

In reality the local residents, council and lack of space make this highly unlikely

Planning permission was granted for rebuilding the Stratton Bank, along with the Intel Stand.

We just couldn't afford to go through with the plan.

It certainly is mate/=

Speaking to someone in the know, a while back, there is  abit of land already planned for STFC.  Not sure how accurate but was said it was inside Swindon, as talk talk said the council (ok new swindon partnership) would love the county ground as a way of flats on teh way into teh new business infrastructure

What bit of land is that then Ash?  Do tell.

Front Garden, who told me is linked closely, but I cant say for 100%

Ash - just cannot see it being Front Garden.....

I am on the Governors at Commonweal, and we were offered a new school if we moved to the front garden.  The trouble was the only land available was right in the centre of a flood plain - the reckoning was that the playing fields at least would be under water for a lot of the winter !

We asked for assurances that they could sort this and neither the Environment Agency or the Council could give them.

We then asked where else the school could be situated on the FG, and were told catagorically there is nowhere else to put it -all the land is taken.

If you go here you can look at the "Masterplan" for the FG, there is really nowhere to put a new ground down there....

http://www.wichelstowe.co.uk/template01.asp?pageid=39

Also bear in mind the FG is planned so that everyone can walk around it - it is specifically designed not to attract cars down there - there is no way anyone would get planning permission for a football ground...

Front Garden is a loose word used here, could be anywhere between j15 and j16, there are many firleds not currently up for development, possibly the land as you go across j16 towards bassett on the left? Just what I heard but know the guy is high up the chain.  I dont care where we play as long as its in swindon

Ah yeah - That is a fair shout Ash...

There is plenty of room away from the new houses I guess - even the "Newbury" side of Junction 15 - loads of room that way  :shock:

But agreed - it needs to be in Swindon - and absolutely needs ot be in walking distance of some boozers !

Isn't there a tip behind the garden centre at Hays Lane, J16? If not available for a stadium etc maybe we could dispose of certain executive rubbish there.

It's not big enough. Yeah, I know - I'm sad and know about local tips.

All well and good, but to do that they would have to break even, or at least not lose shed loads. A good start would be to run the club properly. So why retain any of the current board ?

Not many pubs nearby either. Sally P's (no more cat puns allowed), Beefeater, hardly football pubs. Maybe flatten the garden centre and build pubs and a stadium.

Are you Shaw ?