Thetownend.com

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/sport/swindontown/headlines/display.var.1542078.0.swindon_town_creditors_told_to_wait_or_get_nothing.php

"Red rag" and "bull" comes to mind.

I can see HMRC wading in now.

Hope so.

Wouldn't it be better from a creditors point of view to defer voting to see if the investment actually happens?

Especially after the Leeds situation, I see the HMRC taking a tougher line.

Not sure why it may take nine months, if a takeover, with significant investment, is imminent

false dawn confirmed!!

tell em to stuff it!

POWER IN!

Clever move in my opinion.

If you want your money you'll have to wait, otherwise you won't get any at all. So if you're owed say £50k, you will wait obviously.

Power to the People.

How, can the takeover be on the horizon but the creditors have to wait nine months? The board are playing a dangerous game here.

Nothing ever changes does it!!

I am amazed at the lack of good will through out this CVA payment saga.  The board has known for a very long time that we would be unable to pay this debt off by June 30th but we wait until July 12 to tell the creditors to wait for their payment.  To be fair I'm not a business man, but if I was owed money by this lot I would not be impressed receiving a letter like that.

I imagine the Football League will be looking at our case very closely, how is it we can go out and buy players but then refuse to pay an agreed debt on time?

I am now very worried.

The creditors need to get heavy now.  The 'wait 9 months or get nothing' ploy is pathetic and worthless, because the creditors know that Bill Power will be able to pay the CVA immediately.

I cannot understand how we have such a incompetent bunch of people running this club.  I'm worried as well.  VERY worried.

I want answers today, club statement please.

Its just another show of our incompetence when we can pay wages to all these new signings, when we knew we had a CVA payment to make by the end of June.  Nothing was said to any of the creditors that we were going to be unable to pay it, and then, two weeks after the deadline, the creditors are being told to wait another 9 months or risk getting nothing!  

Sheer incompetence, and shows no business acumen whatsoever.  If this takeover truly is imminent, then surely they should be looking at coming in, paying off all the debts, and starting afresh?

Sending out a letter like that, while we are signing up players and "sporting directors" left right and centre, is taking the piss. What the hell are they playing at! Their incompetence seems to ramp up a notch just as we think they can't sink any lower!

I'm going to be contraversial here.......

They're businessman. Their not stupid. Dunwoody is, from what I gather, a successful company. They know what they're doing and obviously know how to fob off the people they owe money to. They are obviously waiting for big investment down the line somewhere. Most of the creditors would rather have their money so will wait that little longer rather than getting nothing.





*Now awaits hanging........*

It does seem bizzare. You would have though the 1st thing they would have done with any investors money is pay the fucking CVA :shrug:

You can play that game for so long, but if you alienate your customers, your landlord and your creditors....sooner or later, it will all come back to haunt you.  This is what is happening right now.

When you're in a hole, you need allies - a the current board have none.  We're in deep trouble.

Dunwoody- successful.

you run a credit check on them- obviously not

So it's not bullying?

Either wait

or you get nothing.

If I was owed money in future I would not ever deal with anyone connected to the club.  Fuck the lot of them.  

Is how I would think.

Well they're still in business so can't be that bad....

Indeed you're right, however there's more than one way to run  a business. I would imagine it's not in the best interest of the club to  upset the council (one of the creditors), by failing to pay the cva, announce they can extend it at will (not true!) but not discuss it, then announce a big 'investment', buy players etc, then tell the council, 2 weeks after the deadline, they may have to wait a further 9 months for taxpayers money.

Considering the council owns the land and the club will probably submit a redevelopment proposal in the near future it's hardly the most constructive way of building business relationships.

Furthermore, it is accepted by just about everyone that the club's medium/long term viability rests on a ground development or redevelopment.  Given the board's cavalier attitude towards Swindon Council, the club's landlord, it is looking increasingly likely that they have no intention whatever of remaining in Swindon.  That bridge has been well & truly burned.

The worrying thing is we are one of the main reasons they are still in business the financial incomings from us have kept a struggling company a float for years  :(

I'm far from being a fan of the regime, but you need players to keep the club as an ongoing concern. No club=no investment.

Now the sporting director is an odd one, but I think the OS said it was conditional on the investment so hasn't officiallly happened yet.

Aside from that then yes, it does stink a bit. I'm amazed the letter came out 2 weeks AFTER the debt was due rather than two weeks before it was due. Perhaps they thought they would have the money by the end of June, who knows.  Andronikou never suprises me, but after seeing the stunt the Leeds administrators pulled I am a little sceptical of impartiality of any CVA supervisor/administrators...

Couldn't pay bills to QPR last season so had their contract terminated and one of the groups arms is currently under a CVA.  The people running it might be getting success of of it but the business is not.

Exactly correct- STF  has been the mainsource of income for the past few years

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's not the greatest way of relationship building and keeping certain people on side.

Exactly which begs the question:

Upset the council- no intention of staying in Swindon

STFC Bart says
Exactly which begs the question:

Upset the council- no intention of staying in Swindon

Exactly what I'm thinking. Engineer an even more desperate situation - piss the Council off even more and bingo Chippenham here we come. They make shitloads of money and we get a Kassam situation - albeit with 4 sides.

Thats exactly what is planned i think- dont think the FL will allow it though.

But hey- when have STFC ever forward planned/researched anything

I just hope that the Football League don't view this as a substantial change to the CVA to warrant a points deduction. I'm sure the acting Chief Exec/Administrator has checked.
 Would Mark D know the answer to this hypothetical question? Anyone from the club browsing this - could they put my mind at rest?
Anybody?
Anything?
Help- please

if you read the article, and it seems to be an interpretation of the same letter posted up on here the other day (from another forum) then it says "up to 9 months". if the board don't yet know when the takeover will be complete (if at all) then they aren't really in a position to give a definitive date as to when they CVA can be paid off.

and also, all this "pissing off the council" talk is irrelevant, if the club comes up with financially viable plans and satisfies all concerns (council, locals, etc) then permission will be given, regardless of previous history.

i dont know, but given that the CVA has now finished and not been met, you would think any arrangement different to the original terms would constitute a new agreement, and -10 points?

 :soapy tit wank:

Their track record suggests we shouldn't hold our breath.  If and when a takeover happens, and presuming it's people with decent skills and honourable intentions, then I hope they don't let MD and his gang run with the development side of things.

before i become the figure of fun here i should add that i do assume there that any future plans aren't like the old ones!

which, now that i think about it, is highly unlikely.

Is it safe to assume that at this creditors meeting they will be informed of the interest of the fans consortium and their intentions for dealing with the CVA payments?

i say we all sign some sort of petition asking for the council and other creditors to not agree to this 9 month wait. STFC have had 5 fucking years to sort the money out and now they ask for another 9 months.

While all of this is going on BP is sat patiently waiting to take over and pay the money asap yet STFC wont let them in.

It all smells of bull shit to me and a massive stinking pile of it.

Imminent take over my arss

if it was that imminent then pay your fucking bills

Dunwoody is in CVA again, now in their all-new shiny D460 incarnation. You might like to revise your "gathering" sources. Not so much controversial as just completely misinformed  :D

I think something has to give now...all it will need is one of the creditors to call for the winding up order, so I suspect your petition idea may not be necessary.

The comments at the bottom of the Adver article are well worth reading.

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/display.var.1542078.0.creditors_told_to_wait_or_get_nothing.php

Time to step up the pressure.

Personally i think Sir Seton Wills is a fucking disgrace to this football club, what he's done in the past is now in the past, Mr i love STFC, yeah right, that's a loads of bollocks, he's let this board and those clowns screw this club up, if he really cared about STFC he would have done the right thing along time ago and we wouldn't be in this mess!!!

Shsame there isnt a home friendly asap.  good opportunity for protest.

I think we should do everything possible to make the creditors issue a winding up order to get these pathetic clueless clowns out of our club!!

You have to laarf..

Jimmy Riddle aka Creditor 1: “So ok you want to delay repayment of the CVA for 9 months can you tell me how you propose to make that payment in 9 months?”

Mr Andonookakakoo aka CVA Supervisor: “Well we, no sorry scratch that I mean the board are in advanced negotiations.”

Moira Stuart aka Creditor 2: “So who are you, sorry the board in negotiations with Andrew?”

Mr Andonookakakoo aka CVA Supervisor: “An investor”

Bob Holt asleep in the corner wakes up, shakes stick in sync with incomprehensible rant and nods off again.

Jimmy Riddle aka Creditor 1: “So who is this investor and how do they propose to meet the payments?”

Mr Andonookakakoo aka CVA Supervisor: “I can’t tell you that it’s a secret but he is foreign”

Moira Stuart aka Creditor 2: “Right you want me to agree to delaying payment by 9 months while the club are making an annual loss with no guarantee of this foreign investor a. existing, b. investing and c. actually having the money themselves to make the payment?"

Mr Andonookakakoo aka CVA Supervisor: “ Ahh but the negotiations you see, what have I got in my pocketsessss?”

Jimmy Riddle aka Creditor 1: “Are you genuinely a fuckwit or think I’m a bit slow?”

Mr Andonookakakoo aka CVA Supervisor: “Erm, both?” cue exit

Adver needs run a front page feature on this as its about time everyone in swindon knows whats going on as its frightening to see how many stfc supporters don't have a clue whats been happening.  Times up, action has to be taken now.

so, can I have a season ticket now and pay in 9 months time, just incase we go bust and dont have a club


DIDNT THINK SO?!

I don't have sources just presumed.


*hangs head in shame*
Sorry boss.

This is exactly the point i was trying to make the other day before i got a bit of a backlash of a few people. Now i am not in any way defending the club on this one but how can you say "Yes we will pay you the money as soon as there is investment" when that investment is not confirmed and a takeover deal has yet to be completed? The board either don't have the investment or they are being sensible. It's one or the other

Yes but the problem is that if your a creditor due to the boards past poor record in negotiations with investors (how many have supposedly fallen through this year) you would be very reluctant to agree to an extension on the back of comments with no real substance than we may be succesful in getting investment or a takeover.  Mr Andonikou is either very naive or stupid in not including anything with any real substance in the request i.e either listing the potential investor or detailing how much they may be looking to invest.

The problem with up to 9 months is that the CVA will still have to be agreed with the creditors to a specific date x.  Unless it’s written into the CVA amendments the club are under no obligation to make that payment until date x in 9 months time and while the money is in the account making interest why would they?

What I find increasingly difficult to believe is that the supervisor is requesting creditors delay without offering any explanation as to who the investor is or even attempt to justify the club in its existing state being able to make the payment without investment.  It’s a recipe for disaster given that we’re making an annual loss, which the board are usually at pains to point out, why would a secured creditor wait x months for the club to accrue more debt before making a claim without evidence of the investor even existing?

Quite right.  Whoever is investing should now step forward and make their intentions known.  make a public statement of intent, confirm their financial viability, give outline plans of their turnaround proposals for the business etc.

It wouldn't take much, but such a step is exactly what is needed to allay any fears from fans and creditors alike.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone taking over the club, provided they can offer up a viable way of running it.  It's not that difficult, and suirely does not impede the negotiations given a provisional offer must have already been accepted to get the books handed over in the first place.

It may be that the investor is prepared to give fuller details to creditors under cover of confidentiality agreements.

I assume that it is only the IR and the council that need to agree the extension to get it carried for all creditors?

If so, they may well be in discussions with those two creditors, or be prepared to hold discussions with them.

I agree that we would all love to know the details, but it is very common for potential investors in any business to want to keep all details secret until the deal is done.

By the way, I am not defending the board in any way, to avoid ambiguity!

not in football clubs though, they come with emotional baggage and normally end-up being don very publicly from the point of the initial offer being made.

Oh yes. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't blame HMRC or SBC for slapping a winding up order in at all. After all they are owed the money and it hasn't been payed. The club are obviously playing silly buggers and have no investment and they are hoping it will sort itself out (which if this is the case it won't) or they have the investment and takeover pretty much sealed and are hoping that this will be enough to persuade HMRC or SBC or both that the money will be paid.

It's why I said that the creditors, from their perspective, refuse to vote and wait it out a few more weeks. That way they're not tied in.

Anyone know if they could they do that?

Keep you eyes on this.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/Notices.asp?webType=0&CategoryId=GC2450

Any day now...

No chance, im gonna get lynched but it seems a sensible option that they have taken tbh.The key word is UP TO 9 MONTHS.

Sadly I'm already checking every day but it'll be another couple of weeks I'd have thought.

I think why people are annoyed is that the board have had 5 years to pay this off.  The board agreed the date 5 years ago, and should have had plans stretching back from 2002 to solve this.  It appears they haven't, and ave only just realised.  Hence all the talk of a new investor blah blah blah, but without actually specifying any details.  
The board are held to account, seeing as it was agreed 5 years ago, and nothing has really been done to have a plan in place to pay off the 900,000 by June 2007.

In one respect, the letter does officially confirm the view that the current Board are indeed FAILURES.

They have managed to miss their profit projections (that they would have set) by approx £5m in 5 years.  Cracking performance chaps.

On a related issue, are any businesses still transacting with STFC on credit terms? I certainly wouldn't. I'd be asking for cash up front.

The Council are not going to accept it are they, the club are already extremely umpopular with certains parts of the community (mainly due to the antics of the board), it would be political suicide for the Council to agree to defer the payment.

Equally, I would agree that they have burn their bridges with regards to staying in Swindon, either they have a new location or they are just flailing around like a punch drunk woman until they leave the club.

I still think that Andronikoukoulo is being a little naughty and unprofessional, whilst I do accept that he is being honest in that no other formal bid has been made for the club (I assume the consortium never got that far), he is fully aware that there is a potential bid in the offing, something he has not passed forward to the creditors at least to provide some background to the position, it could slightly alter the all or nothing approach being taken.

Dunwoody is not a succesful company by anyones standards, it does not trade and its new shell company is in a CVA itself.

We have not gone away folks...watch this space.

I am very worried about what the FL might do to poor little Swindon, (we're not Leeds) if the worse happens and it's all bullshit.

Worse than having 10 points docked, could someone tell me if we could be kicked out of the League altogether?  Was there not something about third time in to failed administration = OUT?  Hope I've got it wrong.

Can someone who knows please clarify that whilst there is a legitimate option in the form of Bill Power & the Trust Consortium....can we be penalised if they are able to come in and clear debts (hypothetically of course)?

Is this proposal therefore classed as a renegotiation of the CVA? It is an alteration to the terms of the original agreement therfore how will the football league view this?

If they feel appropriate are they able to enforce a 10 point deduction on us after all when we signed the current CV we committed to pay the £900k by the end of June 07.

Whats the guarantee the same wouldn't happen again if the proposal is passed?

I would imagine that we can be peanalised, I don't beleive that any club in the FL has renogotiated it's CVA so we may be the first, and the FL may fancy making an example to stop other clubs trying the same thing.

Android does not seem to want to accept the existence of the Fan's Consortium though, in theory the Fan's Consortium should be rival bidders to the "new Consortium" and the current lot should be noegotiating with both to get the best deal they can, but for obvious reasons they won't.

I do wonder if the "new consortium" will pay the CVA subject to planning permission being recieved for a redev or a new ground so they can make money back.

Don't worry Normy, I'm sure that the current trustworthy, reliable, honest, whiter-than-white, truthful, respectable, honorable, principled, upright, fair, sincere, genuine, creditable, dependable people that are currently in charge of the club will have borne this in mind and done the necessary checks.

NOT.

 :wanker:

as macca says, the key phrase is "up to nine months". this could mean that the CVA is paid off in the next week, month, whatever. IMO it seems like a sensible way of hedging your bets, the only issue being the length of time it's taken Andronikou to sort this mess out.

what's happened to this promised legal action? where's bill gone?

Oooh, sick psych there Worcester.

I have every confidence in the current regime.

NOT.
 :chunder:

Music to my ears - nice to here you have not gone away.

 :clap:

we've all spent the last nine months watching this fucking space!

To wait nine month to possibly be paid a debt is not acceptable.  If it was cast iron guaranteed then I suppose you could argue the case of the board, but with it being "reasonably likely" that they can pay the debt, surely the council have no choice but to refuse the kind offer from the bopards.

That's good to hear, Mike.  Just hurry up, please!

Thats great news, whatever happens I will be grateful to yourself, Phil, Bill and the Trust for persuing persistently against these paracites that plague our club.  If somehow against all the odds you guys got control of the club I could see the messiest ever celebration night in history  :D

"Up to nine months" will surely mean 9 months though, unless it is a stipulation of the CVA variance that if the takeover happens payment needs to be made within N days....

It wouldn't make financial sense to pay it straight away if an unconditional variance was agreed.

Seems to me that this tactic can be used again and again.....May 2008 - we haven't got the money so give us another 9 months or you won't get anything.....9 months later....we haven't got the money so give us another 9 months or you won't get anything.....9 months later....we haven't got the money so give us another 9 months or you won't get anything.....


 :nono:

The whole thing just beggers belief,the gall of them to think they can keep putting it off,i'm just amazed by it.

But what damage could an unconditional variance bring?

- future of the club in doubt?
- 10 points reduction?
- expulsion from the League

OK, maybe scare-mongering but it's not as simple as just saying 'let's renegotiate the CVA regardless as to who is in charge' and everything will be OK afterwards'.

hands up if you are seriously worried about the future of the club ... I noticed Leeds may be refused entry into League 1 ... is our entry ratified yet or are we in danger too I wonder??


I still think its Nigerian investors btw ... Taribo West ...

(My dad jokingly said he reckons its the Jacksons ... Jermaine and Tito were in Swindon recently and attended a match (tho apparently no one noticed) and with Michaels backing intend to take over the club as they love "soccer!)

i still think you're full of shit

 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

That's the best thing I've heard in weeks.
This latest debacle is ludicrous.
Scarborough renegotiated their CVA, & are now out of business. I know, it wasn't the football league, but I can't see the league traeting us any differently, particaularly as they are now fuming about Leeds doing a Bristol 1982 with no real penalty.
I also can't see the creditors wearing it. They will know of the fans Consortiums bid.
If this new "Investor" is committed, why does it take 9 months anyway. I think 9 weeks is too bloody long.
A cheque takes 3 days to clear, so even passing through 3 different holding companies, 9 days is about right.

Am i the only one tired of this "wait and see..." malarkey that we get either from the board, or the trust consortium? I'm bored of hearing vague utterings and false promises of action...

No David, you are far from being the only one.

The onus on the Board is to give us a little more info on what's going on, rather than a simple "trust us" plea from a statement that is now a week old.

We are being treated like shit.

Can I just add I was the first to pull Taribo West out of my arse - just in case anything comes from it.  

 :o

Can I add in then Sam Hammam then in case it him !!!  :soapy tit wank:

We've known for some years that the Board couldn't meet this final CVA payment without a new ground....we've also known that this likelihood would endanger the future of the club.  

  So now we find ourselves right here....the main difference to a few years back, is that whereas SBC could be seen as being anti club, there are now numbers who feel they should pull the plug, in order for us to move forward.

  Another obvious, was that the mystery investor talk, was likely to be a tactic to gain some extra time for paying the CVA.

  Surely from a PR standpoint any viable investor would wish to reassure the fans that matters were in hand, in order to be seen in  a good light....the appointment of the no-mark scummer Brevitt further confirming the lack of substance involved in this ruse.

Mostly agree Reg, but PS has alledgely met said investors, i.e. they are bona fide - if it wasnt for that small technicality I would agree with you 100% - however, that is the one thing I cant reconcile....

Can Swindon B.C & HMRC, the 2 largest creditors, and Bill Power
who is owed money, go over Andronikou's head to whoever appointed him to control the CVA and have him removed.
It is obvious to most people that there is an unhealthy alliance between him & the current board.

If someone has stated publicly that they will make certain financial provisions to buy the club and pay the CVA surely he is obliged to investigate and report back ?

That "one small technicality" doesn't mean that it wasn't staged for PS's benefit.

I'm sure the "investors" did look foreign, being of Greek extraction...

no, you're not. it seems that noises coming from the trust and consortium have become as vague as those coming from the boardroom; there has been nothing concrete from either side in months. i've reached a point of wondering whether the faith i invested in the consortium was blind faith and it was really worth it.

wake me up when something happens.

on an entirely contradictory note to my previous post; hadwin said on RS tonight that he believes the new investors are portuguese.

something about some town players being at a cricket match with starnes and some portuguesers.

I think these are that lines that a lot of us are now starting to think along.  Mike Wilks was on here earlier today saying that he and Bill Power are still very much in the wings.  What their strategy is, however, we don't know.

Lets all google portuguese investors then and come up with names.

Mine are Aderito Cavaco, Marco Oliveira and Valter Duarte.

(no I'm not serious)

That has been floated on the Thisis site since Tuesday, will we ever know?

this rumour has done the rounds.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/image_galleries/stfc_investors_gallery.shtml?1

Not too difficult to get a couple of blokes of mediteranean appearance to appear knowing that the press will be there, seems a bit of coincidence that we get a possible sighting of them just as they are starting to try to convince creditors that they exist.
I'm with Talk Talk on this one, how do we know the meeting with Sturrock wasn't just staged, they know full well that plenty of people will think its true if he says he has met them and I don't put it past them to be underhand even with him.
There again I'm fucking cynical and far from open minded over anything these cunts do.

Fucking hell!

Paranoia is alive and well and thriving on the TEF.

been on acid me thinks

Five year bad trip.

indeed, i'm waiting for the 'foreign investors are aliens' rumour.

Thats already been proven, only the test results have been lost.... and no this isn't just a conspiracy theory.

From the appearance they could be Greek!!  (Portugese speaking greeks I guess!)

Nonsence but I swear one of them was stood on a grassy knoll a few years ago

Is this a nightmare and I am going to wake up and find out that Swindon have not been deducted ten points, have a new board in place, and have plenty of cash to sign the best strikers from Lithuania and Columbia?

I was thinking about this the other night and in new optimistic fB form, I've been thinking that 9months isn't very long. Surely if they had no chance of investment; the whole thing being a myth, they would have gone for much longer?

Who knows though.

I saw them eating a feta cheese salad. I could be lying though.

taramasalata,chips,curried goat and piri-piri sauce, actually.

If they cant pay the CVA then they dont put us in any better position that we are already in.

The only other thing more important than paying the CVA is getting rid of Mike Diamandis.