Thetownend.com

Just watching his 1st speech on Sky.  My word he talks well, I think he will be a breath of fresh air and change the whole country.

but ash they allways seem all right at the start and then it all changes, happens every time!!

Self serving cunt.

Just like all front bench MPs, he's probably had to go against his own beliefs and principles thousands of times to hold on to his position.

Don't trust any of them, they're all lying scumbags.

exactamundo!!

soon itll be gordon brown and george bush in this kind of scenario  :arsekisser:   :shag: , just like tony

I thought that the late John Smith was going to be the man that changed British politics.

The last 10 years would have been very different if he hadn't died from a heart attack in 1994.

Do you think?

Watch the Fecker make changes, for changes sake, in order to impose his own stamp of authority on the country.
Was impressed with Bliars eulogy to our Armed Forces.....he got that one spot on. I dont see how he can be a success as a special envoy to the Middle East though. If it wasny for his dodgy dossier, we would not be in the worlds biggest hellhole that is also known as Iraq.

I thought he's mission as Middle East peaceman was relating to Israel/Palestine not Iraq?!?

As for John Smith I remember being a Smith-o-phile at the time he seemed like a decent enough bloke.

As for James Gordon Brown, he should call an election and let the British people decide whether we want him as prime minister or not.  He might be a Scot but I think he's a wanker tbh.

And why is a sweaty Prime Minister anyway?

Haven't they got there own Parliament?

If the country was governed by this                                                http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u294/tans2007/jspint.jpg

we would have a country full of alcoholics and a booze culture, oh fuck we already do  8)

gordon brown also looks like he never has a wash as well - dirty bastard  :wink:

First job: teach the great unwashed how to use apostrophes

Although I was young at the time, my Dad - who isn't in the least but political (I don't even know who he votes for) spoke very highly of Smith and gave me the impression that he really was a decent guy who would make a difference.  

As for Blair and Brown swings and roundabouts for me, trust neither of them, Brown did OK with the Treasury but frankly doesn't inspore me as PM.  IMHO 99% politicians are short termist and self serving, and these days they all seem to be singly from largely the same political hymnsheet.

well if he can talk well, he must be a good prime minister. thank the lord!

i love men

i love girls

I find GB very boring in his speeches to be honest ... sadly "Call me Dave" Cameron isnt much more charismatic.

I think he is a fat oaf

Brown will spend spend spend for the next 6 months, put the country in massive debt while giving us better services and the illusion of progress and change.... then call a general election which he will win because of the changes he has made, and then spend the next 4 years cutting services and raising taxes to pay back the massive debt he has left the treasury in.

That, friends, is a very true story.

i have to say that is pretty much the nail on the head

The whole region is a hornets nest Jan, with the majority of the problems relating to the  arabs and their failure to recognise Israel.
One of his biggest problems will be dealing with the Fundamentalists who will not/do not recognise Isarel as a legitimate state. One of the biggest threats to israel is Iran, and with their support of the militia in Iraq and elsewhere, the whole convoluted mess is linked.

I agree about Brown calling an election. The country voted Blair and his government in last time around, NOT Brown and his government.

isnt it all tit for tat between israel and palestine, or is to do with religion or what?

I think 'fat oaf' has already been registered as a trademark by John Prescott.

i hate him. he has been part of Blair's government for the last 10 years. what makes you think anything is going to change?

Yeah if it was on Al Jazeera it must be true.

It's not as if they're anti Israel or anything, is it?
 :roll:

It is a little tit for tat but the way I see it attacking refugees with missiles fired from helicopters is not the way to seek peace.  It's a little unfair I'd say, and if the roles were reversed and let's say Iran decided to bomb a refugee camp in Israel the western world would go crazy about it.

The western world need to get tough on Israel, if we sorted that out a lot of the Islamic extremist movements would have a huge motivator removed from their recruitment process, imo.

If you actually bothered to watch Al Jazeera (English) you'd see that they're as bona fida news channel as any other.  They do concentrate on the Middle East and Asia but there is no bias to their coverage.

Just keep reading the UK papers and watch the UK news channels, it's not like they could ever be biased now is it?   :roll:

The programme I watched centred around Norwegian coverage of events and focussed on the Norweigians and Fijians who saw what happened.  Some gruesome scenes were shown also.

Get tough on Israel?

Think you need to go and review your history books my friend.

Israel has been fighting the arab countries surrounding it pretty much since it's inception.

The UN ratified it as a Nation State in 1947 and then basically left it to die, as the whole arab world attacked. Despite being hugely outnumbered and faced with superior weaponary, Israel survived and is still there. Much to many arab countries disgust.

The Palestinian question is a little cloudy. Palestine as an independent, sovereign state has never existed. It was an idea formulated by the then British Government.

I'm not saying that atrocities haven't been carried out by both sides, but to say that the West needs to get tough on Israel is being overly simplistic.

Ok to turn a blind eye as the west does now then?  Currently "we" do nothing to try and stop the Israelli's from carrying out atrocity after atrocity, how any government can be left to get on with that kind of action disgusts me.

To say Al Jezeera isn't biased against Israel is total and utter bollocks!!

They are an arab tv station and as such have an arab slant.

To say they haven't is stupidity in the extreme.

I completely agree Jan. And the way they attacked Lebanon earlier in the year was another example of them getting away with murder.

Al Jazeera (English) is a cracking news channel.  Ok so they may have a slant, who cares the fact is the BBC/CNN/ABC whoever have slants also.  they way you make out anything on Al Jazeera cannot be trusted is crazy, in my opinion.

Herta if you want to carry on saying whatever I say is stupid, or want to continue to patronise, please don't bother, I have better things to do (like work  :oops: ).  If you want to have an adult conversation, please continue.

How many atrocities have been carried out against Israel?

Is that ok?

Why are you just talking about Israeli atrocities?

Both sides are engaged in a terror war. A terror war that was started by the Arabs. What do you expect Israel to do? Nothing?

I know there have been atrocities on both sides, more recently though the attacks led by the Palestinians have not been state sponsored unlike the Israelli attacks which have been given full military support.

I know any kind of attack is wrong but a 21 st military backed attack against a refugee camp (which is what I have been talking about) is awful.

So by your logic the UK should have heavily bombed Eire during our struggles against the IRA?  That would have showed them.  What else could we have done?

I agree that any civilian target is wrong, the palestinians have been targeting civilians for years.

I'm going to step away from this debate as I'm a little to close to it to remain objective.

One final point. Israel is surrounded by hostile countries on all sides, some who openly state that their aim is the total destruction of Israel.

Living in a country like that, it's understandable, imo, why many Israeli's are hostile toward Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular. A lot of Israeli's feel they are fighting for their very existence.

that's fair enough Herta, nice to have a decent debate on the TEF, haven't done that for a while.

My closing comment does not refer to the terror it refers to the two types of Israelli's that I have met in my lifetime.

1st type - fiercely proud of their country, very anti-arab, argumentative, slightly scary.

2nd type (two ex-israelli soldiers) - couldn't give a toss about all the trouble, couldn't give a toss about the politics, just wish they and their families could live in peace.

If the second type ever became a majority (on both sides) the middle east would be a cracking place to be.

Back to Brown.....it will be interesting to see whether his Foreign policies  vary to those of Tony Blair, particilarly with regard to Iraq/Afghanistan, and the more general war on terror.

Bush will be gone by the end of the year, it'll be Hillary that he'll be jumping into bed with

Problem with todays politicians are that they are "Career " politicians. ie they do what they think will keep them in power, not what is best for the country.

Got to agree with you there.  It was the arabs who invaded Israel in the 6 day war, & they took over the Golan Heights, West Bank & Gaza,  because they were easier to defend.
Give the Palestinains some automony, & all they do is fight amongst them selves.

Spot on.

I'd sooner see someone like Hague willing to do his own thing than someone like Blair, Cameron or another spin-doctored dullard at the helm.

i've always thought the situation with israel and palestine to be far too complex to break down into good v bad, to attempt to do so is a little foolish imo.

Yeah, that's the first thing that I think of when weighing up a new PM. Where does he stand when it comes to blowing shit up!  None of that education, health service bollocks. Lets get straight down to the violent shit. Come on Gordy, how big's your cock?!

So are you happy Spacey or not? I reckon you support the green party

No he won't. The US Presidential Election doesn't take place until Nov 08, and the President doesn't take office until the following January. Still a good 18 months of Dubya left.

That said, the electoral campaign started 6 months ago. You think its bad in the UK, its a fucking joke here.

I'm not arsed. As long as the tories aren't in power.

booo, nasty Mr Spacey

Ah right, i'd seen all the pre-election stuff kicking off recently, assumed/hoped that it'd be over quickly! :doh:

Still, i stand by my original point, i think Gordy will be distancing himself as much as possible from dubs

Brown is just a spinner, just like Tony. He continually broke his financial rules, but kept on changing the period he measured them on, meaning he didn't.

Remember 10 years ago, we had the best pension funds in the world. What does Gordon do? Put tax on our pension funds, final salary pension goes down the dumper (except civil service ones...and MP's !!), while you and me have to put more and more money into money purchase pensions, which are not as good.

Also, as being a Scottish MP, he can vote on legislation that affects England, but not his own consituency in Scotland.

Dead right, their are too many similarities between this Government & the Board at STFC

Actually Alan, they've tried wiping out CS final salary pensions as well. Its just we're a militant bunch of cunts when backs into a corner and subsequently claimed 'reserved rights'. All new entrants from about 2005 onwards though have new 'contracts' regarding final salary pensions. The Tories would have done the same though, if truth be told.

Public services are bound to be stretched as the demographic has changed so much.

Unless any government drastically rethinks how to deal with it, none will be that successful.

We need to get rid of the OAP burden. Everyone deserves a few years of retirement after working and paying taxes for most their lives. Living to like 90-something is a bit fucking stupid though. Some sort of logan's run situation but where you're age of super-retirement (that's a good name I think) should depend on your contribution to society decided by someone impartial like me.

We can replace all those old people with young Eastern European Immigrants. Most of them will want to return home to retire which isn't a problem for us. They can support the rest of us on the doll.

Happy days.

That's my radical solution anyway.

Is that a blow up doll Ben?

yep.