Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: magic8ball on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 17:24:46 What the hell are the Liverpool fans singing?
Something to do with the first 6 minutes of the game? Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: bigbobjoylove on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 17:27:20 Think it was 'justice for the 96' in relation to the 96 people who died at Hillsborough.
Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: magic8ball on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 17:32:29 Ahhh.
Was wondering what Liverpool fans possibly had to complain about! Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Samdy Gray on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 17:36:05 From Wikipedia:
Quote In April 1989, the single biggest controversy during MacKenzie's reign occurred, later described in a Sun editorial in 2004 as "the most terrible mistake in our history", during the aftermath of the Hillsborough disaster, a deadly crush which occurred during an F.A. Cup semi-final at Hillsborough football stadium in Sheffield which claimed the lives of 96 Liverpool fans. The Sun printed the front-page headline "The Truth", with three sub-headings, "Some Fans Picked Pockets of Victims", "Some Fans Urinated on the Brave Cops" and "Some Fans Beat Up P.C. Giving Kiss Of Life". The accompanying article claimed that ticketless and drunken Liverpool F.C. fans were responsible for the disaster, having supposedly tried to fight their way into the stadium by rushing the turnstiles and attacking policemen outside the ground. Further specific allegations were made that during the disaster itself Liverpool fans inside the stadium had stolen wallets and other items from the dead, had urinated over policemen and the bodies of dead fans, that they had beaten policemen attempting to save the lives of other fans and had sexually abused the body of a dead girl after shouting "throw her up and we'll fuck her" to policemen moving her body. The sources for these allegations were stated to be anonymous police officers and a Conservative MP from Sheffield who wasn't actually present at the game. The article was accompanied by graphic photographs showing Liverpool fans, including young children, choking and suffocating as they were being crushed against the perimeter fences surrounding the terraces - this was widely condemned as severely inappropriate[14]. The coverage and the allegations caused intense uproar on Merseyside (where The Sun was boycotted, with public burnings of the paper organised and many newsagents refusing to stock it at all) and widespread criticism and condemnation from many commentators. The Press Council described the allegations unequivocally as "lies". The official government enquiry into the disaster dismissed the allegation that drunken Liverpool fans had been responsible for the disaster and concluded that inadequate crowd control and errors by the police had been the cause of the disaster. Various investigations conclusively disproved most if not all of The Sun's allegations - when clothing from each of the victims was recovered, none had any trace of urine other than those who had been found to have wet themselves during the crush (this also not surprisingly occurred with some fans who survived having been pulled from the terraces); all wallets, items of jewellery and significant personal possessions of each of the victims was quickly accounted for (thus disproving the allegation of pick-pocketing); no female victim was found to have been sexually abused; and while it has been established that a small number of Liverpool supporters verbally abused policemen who they apparently held responsible for the disaster, no policeman has ever come forward to claim that he was physically attacked by a fan. Some weeks after the disaster, Joan Traynor, who lost two sons in the disaster, was asked by ITN for permission to film the funeral of her sons. Traynor refused and publicly requested that the media respect her family's privacy with regard to the funeral. ITN and all other British media outlets did indeed respect Mrs Traynor's wishes with the exception of The Sun. Kelvin MacKenzie sent photographers to the funeral who clambered over a wall at the cemetery and took numerous photographs of the family laying the two boys to rest before eventually being chased away. The following day photographs of the family at the funeral appeared on the front page of The Sun. Mrs Traynor was said to be deeply upset about the intrusion at the funeral and the subsequent publication of photographs of her and her family on the front page of the same paper which had printing the aforementioned allegations about the disaster itself[15]. Prior to the publication of The Sun's initial article, a number of local newspapers in Yorkshire published very similar allegations (such as The Sheffield Star and The Yorkshire Post)[8]. It has since emerged that many British national newspaper editors were offered the same story from the same sources the day before The Sun article was published (including Andrew Neil at Murdoch's The Times) but while many national newspapers printed allegations about Liverpool fans being responsible for the disaster, only MacKenzie and his counterpart at The Daily Star were prepared to print the more outlandish allegations about theft and abuse of dead bodies, with many editors feeling that the claims sounded dubious. Furthermore, the other national papers which printed coverage claiming Liverpool fans to be responsible for the disaster, including The Daily Star, apologised the day after publication, whereas The Sun did not. In their book about the history of the Sun, Peter Chippindale and Chris Horrie wrote: "As MacKenzie's layout was seen by more and more people, a collective shudder ran through the office [but] MacKenzie's dominance was so total there was nobody left in the organisation who could rein him in except Murdoch. [Everyone] seemed paralysed, "looking like rabbits in the headlights", as one hack described them. The error staring them in the face was too glaring. It obviously wasn't a silly mistake; nor was it a simple oversight. Nobody really had any comment on it, they just took one look and went away shaking their heads in wonder at the enormity of it. It was a classic smear."[16] Murdoch for his part ordered MacKenzie to appear on BBC Radio 4's The World This Weekend in the aftermath of the controversy to apologise. MacKenzie was quoted on the programme as saying: "It was my decision and my decision alone to do that front page in that way and I made a rather serious error". In 1993 he told a House of Commons National Heritage Select Committee that: "I regret Hillsborough. It was a fundamental mistake. The mistake was I believed what an MP said. It was a Tory MP. If he had not said it and the chief superintendent (David Duckenfield) had not agreed with it, we would not have gone with it." In 1996, MacKenzie again discussed the matter on Radio 4 but this time claimed: "The Sun did not accuse anybody of anything. We were the vehicle for others." Sales of The Sun on Merseyside have never recovered, costing News International several million pounds a year,[17] despite a belated full page apology by the newspaper in 2004. MacKenzie sensationally reignited the controversy himself in 2006 when he was quoted as claiming that The Sun's allegations about Liverpool fans were actually true after all and that he had only apologised because he was forced to by Rupert Murdoch (see below). Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Scot Munroe on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 18:00:07 Good game. Great goal by Rosicky. I think they were singing " 6 minutes for the 96"
Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Amir on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 18:13:53 No, it was definately "justice for the 96".
I remember well turning the tv over and wondering what the hell was going on, and Forest(?) fans booing because they thought it was fighting. A catalogue of errors and circumstance led to the tragedy. Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: yeo on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 18:56:04 Come on you Scouse twats I had a £5 at 29/4 at half time for 2-2
Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: yeo on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 19:15:13 useless cunts :cry:
Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Spud on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 21:28:51 Quote from: "Yeovil Red" useless cunts :cry: :soapy tit wank: I hope Spurs beat those Welsh Cunts tomorrow. Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Fred Elliot on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 21:30:36 Sam
Did you just have an "Ultra" moment ? Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Samdy Gray on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 21:31:12 Quote from: "Fred Elliot" Sam Did you just have an "Ultra" moment ? Yep :( Title: Re: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Spud on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 21:32:07 Quote from: "magic8ball" What the hell are the Liverpool fans singing? Something to do with the first 6 minutes of the game? http://i12.tinypic.com/4hljb6o.jpg Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Fred Elliot on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 21:32:30 :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:
How did the house hunting go ? are you going to be my new neighbour ?? :beers: :beers: Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Samdy Gray on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 21:36:02 Quote from: "Fred Elliot" :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: How did the house hunting go ? are you going to be my new neighbour ?? :beers: :beers: Went well, but not in Stratton. Had an offer accepted on a place in Westlea. Just need to find a bloody mortgage and conveyancer now, oh joy :| Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Fred Elliot on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 21:41:15 Quote from: "sam_stfc" Quote from: "Fred Elliot" :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick: How did the house hunting go ? are you going to be my new neighbour ?? :beers: :beers: Went well, but not in Stratton. Had an offer accepted on a place in Westlea. Just need to find a bloody mortgage and conveyancer now, oh joy :| Speak to Macca and Bushey mate. They will sort you out !! :beers: Title: Re: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Amir on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:10:16 Quote from: "Spuddy_STFC" Quote from: "magic8ball" What the hell are the Liverpool fans singing? Something to do with the first 6 minutes of the game? http://i12.tinypic.com/4hljb6o.jpg "Justice for the 96" for the first 6 minutes :nod: To be honest there's not really anything to be achieved by digging this up again, although it's understandable how angry people still are at MacKenzie. Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:13:54 if loads of ticketless liverpool supporters didn't try to get in it never would have happend!
they blame everyone but themselves. they killed their own. harsh,tragic, but true Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: red macca on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:15:26 Quote from: "arriba" if loads of ticketless liverpool supporters didn't try to get in it never would have happend! bollocks they were let in arriba,The police should of done the job they were there to dothey blame everyone but themselves. they killed their own. harsh,tragic, but true Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:19:57 why were they there in the first place without tickets?
Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Amir on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:22:40 Quote they blame everyone but themselves. That much is probably true, but it was a mistake in the first part to not give them the Kop, and then a mistake on the police's part to open the gates(I can understand that they did this because they feared people were being crushed). Beardsley hitting the bar when he did just compounded the problem, and who are we going to blame for that? Regardless of what happened, The Sun running a story like they did the day after was fucking despicable. Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: red macca on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:22:50 Quote from: "arriba" why were they there in the first place without tickets? same reason we did at blackpool away in the old div2,it happens at alot of games it does not mean the police should just let them in.agreed you shouldnt go without tickets but the police should never have opened those gatesTitle: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:25:06 Quote from: "Amir" Quote they blame everyone but themselves. That much is probably true, but it was a mistake in the first part to not give them the Kop, and then a mistake on the police's part to open the gates(I can understand that they did this because they feared people were being crushed). Beardsley hitting the bar when he did just compounded the problem, and who are we going to blame for that? Regardless of what happened, The Sun running a story like they did the day after was fucking despicable. i agree totally with what you say. just find it ironic that liverpool fans blame veybody but themselves. if hundreds if not thousands of them didn't turn up ticket less it wouldn't have happend. its a terrible tragedy but the police are not solely to blame Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:26:41 Quote from: "red macca" Quote from: "arriba" why were they there in the first place without tickets? same reason we did at blackpool away in the old div2,it happens at alot of games it does not mean the police should just let them in.agreed you shouldnt go without tickets but the police should never have opened those gatesmen,women and children with tickets were being crushed outside the turnstiles. have you seen the footage? Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Bogus Dave on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:27:17 Hundreds of thousands of england fans travel abroad without tickets when we get to a major final, but the police dont let them in willy nilly...
Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:29:19 Quote from: "swindon town dave" Hundreds of thousands of england fans travel abroad without tickets when we get to a major final, but the police dont let them in willy nilly... but do they try to force their way into stadiums in their hundreds? Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: red macca on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:29:22 I know what your saying arriba just think it could all of been avoided(obviously).The fact that justice has not been done 11 years later is what annoys those fans no matter what anyone says liverpool is a special football club and i admire the way they are still fighting it and boycotting the sun newspaper.
On another note did you know it is compulsory for the liverpool players to attend the hillsborough memorial every year Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:32:36 what justice?what do they want?
if a member of my family was crushed i'd want to know the cunts without tickets who forced the situation in the first place were. they lived! Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: red macca on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:38:24 Quote from: "arriba" what justice?what do they want? i would want to know why they were let in.i have seen the footage and 99% of the deaths were INSIDE the ground.this argument can run and run like i said they want justice and for you to ask what justice is just stupidif a member of my family was crushed i'd want to know the cunts without tickets who forced the situation in the first place were. they lived! Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Amir on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:40:25 Quote but do they try to force their way into stadiums in their hundreds? They have done in the past. It could have happened to alot of teams fans in days gone by, so I think it's unfair to vilify Liverpool supporters for this. They were to blame in a certain respect, but it is not their job to control fans as it is the police's. Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:41:48 who should be brought to justice?
whats stupid about that? Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:42:51 Quote from: "Amir" Quote but do they try to force their way into stadiums in their hundreds? They have done in the past. It could have happened to alot of teams fans in days gone by, so I think it's unfair to vilify Liverpool supporters for this. They were to blame in a certain respect, but it is not their job to control fans as it is the police's. yes but 96 people didn't die in those examples did they? Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: red macca on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:46:01 whoever is responsible for the deaths of those 96 people should be bought to justice.
The enquiry was a joke everyone knows that.If it revealed that it WAS all the fans fault and they carried on trying for justice then yes i would agree with you. The fact is the enquiry showed that no one was soley responsible ,now if that was one of my family members i would be pissed off with that decision and fight for justice Wouldnt you? Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:49:36 well who is responsible then?
it is not solely the blame of anyone! it is a collective blame of both the ticketless fans and police who were unprepaired for the situation. my point is, liverpool fans should exept a major part of the blame themselves. they will never get what they want from this.blaming just the police is wrong! if they want justice then copper in charge is at fault as is every fan who tried to enter the ground without a ticket is. i would welcome prosecutions for all of them! Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: red macca on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:54:20 Quote from: "arriba" Quote from: "Amir" Quote but do they try to force their way into stadiums in their hundreds? They have done in the past. It could have happened to alot of teams fans in days gone by, so I think it's unfair to vilify Liverpool supporters for this. They were to blame in a certain respect, but it is not their job to control fans as it is the police's. yes but 96 people didn't die in those examples did they? I win :D Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Arriba on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 22:58:26 Quote from: "red macca" Quote from: "arriba" Quote from: "Amir" Quote but do they try to force their way into stadiums in their hundreds? They have done in the past. It could have happened to alot of teams fans in days gone by, so I think it's unfair to vilify Liverpool supporters for this. They were to blame in a certain respect, but it is not their job to control fans as it is the police's. yes but 96 people didn't die in those examples did they? I win :D unfortunately there are only losers in this tragic part of football history! Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: red macca on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 23:00:13 Quote from: "arriba" Quote from: "red macca" Quote from: "arriba" Quote from: "Amir" Quote but do they try to force their way into stadiums in their hundreds? They have done in the past. It could have happened to alot of teams fans in days gone by, so I think it's unfair to vilify Liverpool supporters for this. They were to blame in a certain respect, but it is not their job to control fans as it is the police's. yes but 96 people didn't die in those examples did they? I win :D unfortunately they are only losers in this tragic part of football history! Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: herthab on Saturday, January 6, 2007, 23:00:35 Quote from: "arriba" Quote from: "red macca" Quote from: "arriba" Quote from: "Amir" Quote but do they try to force their way into stadiums in their hundreds? They have done in the past. It could have happened to alot of teams fans in days gone by, so I think it's unfair to vilify Liverpool supporters for this. They were to blame in a certain respect, but it is not their job to control fans as it is the police's. yes but 96 people didn't die in those examples did they? I win :D unfortunately they are only losers in this tragic part of football history! I think you'll find Forest lost the replay. Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: Simon Pieman on Sunday, January 7, 2007, 00:56:01 Hillsborough was not caused by fans without tickets. It was caused because there weren't enough turnstiles and the game should have been delayed.
Ultimately it was the fencing that obviously caused the crush, but there were loads of factors and to blame it on Liverpool fans is just a bit silly. Title: Liverpool V Arsenal - BBC1 Post by: fatbury on Sunday, January 7, 2007, 10:52:08 it was the police who were to blame for Hillsborough .. we all know that .. the Sun bloke McKenzie is a disgusting human being for suggesting anything else .. I fully support and agree with the Liverpool fans last night - Well done to them all last night
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