Thetownend.com

Interesting discussion on five live about weed at the mo.
Does it destroy brain cells, and if you have ms, which destroys brain cells that manage bodily function anyway, why aint it been legalised if it helps?! And whats wrong with chocolate laced with cannabis for those who beleive it helps with the symptoms of ms?

Millom

There's a website called thc4ms and they were the ones selling the cannabis choc bars. They have now been told to cease immediate production of product.

http://www.thc4ms.org.uk/



when they whent to court they had no chance the judge said they have no defence at all and even if they did it would be thrown out. If convicted they could face upto 35 years in jail...

It also (temporarily) lowers blood pressure, which can provide relief for someone who suffers from DVT(deep vein thrombosis).

There are good and bad points to it, but why it's not available on prescription, god only knows.  What I hate is when they wheel out people who say it has ruined their lives, 99 times out of 100 because it has brought out an already existing psychological problem they have(this problem having been exasperated by the huge increase in strength of modern cannabis).

Another one that gets me is the 'gateway drug' argument.  If someone is predisposed to get stoned, then of course they are more inclined to take other types of drugs.  Especially so when you consider that weed is illegal yet you are still allowed to drink, even a rational person could be led to believe that maybe other illegal drugs aren't as bad as they've been told.

:toppost:  :goodpost:

i know of somebody that had serious mental health issues after years of smoking cannabis.
and it deffo leads to other drugs as myself and group of friends in our teens went that way!
it does have positive effects for ms sufferers ect but it can be dangerous too.
its an impossible question to answer really as it effects people differently.
but its no worse than alcohol imo

It probably kills a few brain cells, as alcohol does. Thankfully though our bodies are in a constant state of regeneration, hence why plenty of very intelligent people smoke green.

It's disgusting that it's not available on prescription for MS and other certain sufferers. If I were suffering I'd grow my own without a care, the courts won't punish you other than confiscating equipment at the worst.

Watch out for weed with dust all over it that is going about at the moment, could be the fibre glass coated stuff which some cunt is shipping about to make a bit more money in this drought, adds 35% more weight but fucks your lungs up big time.

As Amir says, modern skunk is really hindering any developments for legalisation. With all these super strains being bred which can really fuck with your head, there's a very good argument to keep it illegal in my opinion. Weed or most hash, on the other hand, has nowhere near the potential psychological damage of skunk.

Not sure about leading to other things but ive seen more than one person become a dribbling mong paronoid recluse smoking it.Most grow out of it (usually when they have children) some dont.Ive lost good friends to it ,they haven't died they have just crawled up their own arses.Alcohol is equally as bad though just more socially acceptable.I never took to smoking it made me paranoid and I didnt like it.I prefered my drugs to take me up not down.

I know ten that haven't.Did weed make a difference though? Would you not have sought the other drugs without weed?

Alcohol is a depressant yeovil! Or do you mean 'drugs'.

Weed never really gave me a buzz but I hate smoking so could explain it.  My best mates mum dies of MS and I know for a fact smoking weed helped teh pain so I am all for it

Well it doesnt make me depressed :D  but I ment Speed,Pills and Coke.

It's a fair point, it can fuck people up.  My belief is that it does generally bring out pre-existing conditions, though that doesn't make any difference really, it's still causing alot of people problems that most of the time they would never end up experiencing if they didn't smoke.

To me alcohol is many times more dangerous, but then that comes down to personal experience as much as anything, and I still drink like a fish regardless.

I have smoked weed and black/solid in the past. Still dont mind a bit of weed if it's about but dont go looking. Rather green(grown naturaly), than black or solid that is enhanced with fuck knows what including tar on import!(the white stuff refered to earlier in green  might be tng not fibre glass oxford fan?)
Never been interested in snorting stuff up my hooter, not my bag.
From a pain relief perspective, had an interesting conversation with an ms sufferer on new years eve, and she said to me that without it, she would not be able to live! And ive known the women for 15 years, and she doesnt drink cos it disagrees with the legally prescribed drugs that the doc gives her.(she's only my age as well, 37)

Millom

The whole "side effects" argument pisses me off. Take a look at the instructions on every fucking drug available in the chemists. They all have side effects. Including one I saw recently that said, "...in rare cases - Death"

:D  do you mean THC!?

Basically they're spraying pretty decent green with artificial crap which, to some, appears to look like crystals (THC - the good stuff) you'd get on the skunk. It is very harmful, as you can tell by the ache on your lungs and coughing up shit. If you smoke the stuff with a filter rather than roach, the filter goes BLACK - yuck.

It's not hard to tell it apart from good green, tap the weed and weird bits will fall off it. Probably glass and godknowswhatelse.

I'm not one for sniffing either, just don't like the feeling of it. Just wack it straight in the mouth.

everything in moderation. I think most people have a basic intelligence that tells them when they are overdoing it. I have tried most drugs (except crack and heroin) and yet I'm a pretty intelligent guy, who holds down a decent job, is married and owns my own house.

The problem is you only hear about drop outs and wasters because that is what sells newspapers.

imagine the headline:

"MAN HAS GOOD TIME ON DRUGS, WHILE LEADING NORMAL LIFE SHOCKER!"

not exactly breaking news is it.

ps, don't bother doing coke if you don't snort, you are wasting your money. Get some speed, mix it with glucose and you have some pretty potent bass.

coke has made me talk utter shit the couple of times i've tried it, last time ended in an argument with my girlfriend so i won't be doing it again

you did too much. like i said, everything in moderation. you need to know your limits.

Guys ! I know one fellow after taking some drugs rather mixed with alcohol he was chasing after people and wanted to kill them by ax . He is my neighborugh  :soapy tit wank:

I've always found myself to get the giggles whenever i smoked weed or pot.

only other thing i tried was LSD.
took a planet earth once. all i can say is mental.

this was when i was about 15 and haven't touched the stuff since.

a couple of my mates who carried on taking harder/stronger stuff have ended up inside through dealing etc.
but they are fucking drop outs and fucking clueless idiots.

Obviously all drugs are designed to alter the chemical balance in your brain. It stands to reason that people could go a bit mental if they take drugs. But I do think it's over documented. Drinking doesn't get as much coverage except for the saturday night spill out from the clubs and pubs...

Must say you can get into a routine with the green. In the last year of uni 3 of us in our house got through a quarter every 4-7 days  :?  It didn't effect my grades, but my housemates (who finished uni the year before) did warn me they dropped a grade because of it. I guess like people say, you need to know your limits.

I must say though, I don't really miss it although I drink shit loads more now and I reckon I use alcohol as a substitute.

i know loads that haven't too,but it does effect some.
all people are different!

the second part i cannot answer but i probably would have.
i started off on weed,then acid, then onto speed,e's and coke-crack
also was into ketamine,and prescription drugs ect for a while.
 4 of my mates that started on weed are now dead after getting into heroin.

naah, only had one line the time it ended in an argument, i'm very good at managing my drug intake, never go silly. in my experience most people on coke blab utter crap and become quite self-involved. it wears off so quick too, and is expensive.

I will try to avoid getting my angry head on, but I think weed fucks you up. At least in the long term.

I hate the shit and think it's a bit of a fashion accessory.

Anyway, i have quite a few mates whose lives are properly down the pans, as a result of weed. I knwo people will say, "how do you know this" and "how do you know that", but fuck that, it's fact. Especially seeing as one Dole dosser of a mate, who smoked far too much, gave up after 15 years and now has a proper job, doesn't whine, bitch and get bitter. He shows alot more humility and now hates weed with a passion!

I have other friends so paranoid they are friends no longer, an agrophobic friend, a manic depressive or 2 and a load of jobless mash heads who do fuck all other than get bitter about nothing.

As some have said, moderation is key.

I always said, when i was younger, that weed never leads to hard drugs. Bullshit. I'm sure anyone over the age of 25 who smoked weed when younger, and who's being completely honest, will confess to have really pushed the boat out.

I'm now straight as fuck and to be completely honest have never been into anything in a big way. Thanks fuck i say, my mates have recently graduated to Crack. Nice one boys.

Why over 25 Barry Scott? Can you not buy other drugs when your under 25? Is it like some dealer rule that they won't sell to under 25 year olds?  :D

Never done anything other than weed and booze.

You lot need to reverse engineer the argument. for example:

it is said that those who try weed are more likely to try hard drugs

or put another way:

Those who have tried hard drugs started on weed.

I don't think the two necessarily follow. It's like the age old argument of video games causing violence. Would it not be reasonable to assume that a violent person would be attracted to violent games?

Cheeky cunt  8)

It just seemed around 25 years old that i noticed things escalating for my friends. whether it was the effects of earlier abuse or the need to get more, i don't know?!

Perhaps it was just the prolonged weed use that eventually started to hit them?

I don't know.

All i know is seeing friends give up/start up/smoke more weed, showed marked changes in their personality and lives as a whole.

Me, i'm just beer, fags and espresso.  :|



I disagree, i expect that the vast majority of people who use hard drugs started on weed.

I've been there. 12 years old weed scared me FFS. After being conviniced it was okay to try it (by the media, pop and hiphop no less!). I smoked for years, i "progressed" to fags and later in life realised that drugs weren't that bad, afterall, "everyone does them".

One day it was fucking clear, mainly due to a friend being permanently altered by a "bad trip", that drugs suck. I never really touched anything again.

I have a friend who has only done weed, he's the most paranoid freak you'll ever meet. He's an agrophobic and a manic depressive.

He gave up for a period and instantly overcame the agrophobia and mass paranoia. He started again when he felt okay. He's back within the confines of his house, and has made enermies out of his friends because of "how we laugh about him behind his back".

It's a fucking sad state of affairs.

extreme cases i'm afraid.

I don't mean to sound cold, but if you drink enough water you will poison yourself. Myself, my wife and a massive portion of my friends are living proof that people can responsibly enjoy drugs for an extended period of time and have little lasting effect.

I don't buy into your interpretation of events Barry, so we'll agree to disagree on this one I think.

you are both right.barry is right as i've seen it myself with people and i was heading that way.
jayohaitchenn you to are correct that drugs dont always have a negative effect on people

No you're right, i've just seen more negative than positive.

If someone has the occassional smoke, as far as i'm concerned that's fine. Do it alot everyday though, shit changes.

On a side note, one which is close to my heart, i don't understand how smoking is less accepted than weed these days... Weed smoked on its own is proven to be more harmful than fags. I have a feeling this could get some peoples backs up, but eh?  8) Peace.

I still have the odd smoke, if there's some around, and have been known to enjoy the odd trip to Amsterdam  :--  - have the same background as Arriba...started on weed, got into raving and moved on to E's, speed, coke, ketamine, magic mushrooms, lsd - had some mental times but it's something you grow out of for sure. I don't think weed led to the other drugs though, going to the raves did - weed didn't get me into raving!

A load of my mates are still heavily into coke, fair play if that's what they want to do, their lives...

that's not to say that there's any link between the two though; if weed didn't exist they'd most probably have ended up down the same path don't you think?

perhaps it even prolongs the non-crack era of a hard drug user.

I Went to Amsterdam for new year, I love their attitude towards it and i didn't see any problems, apart from the crazy bastards throwing fireworks into the crowds but that was quite funny

aye, they were nutters with their fireworks when i was there a couple of years ago. got some thrown at my feet from a balcony when out for a stroll at midday on NYE, nearly blew my foot off the stupid dutch bastard. also saw kids holding massive lit fireworks with their dad stood next to them like it was the most normal thing in the world.

I am hopefully going to Amsterdam for the Queen's day in May, apparently they have a street party for 1 million people.  :beers:

In the 1960s, Dr. Peter Witt gave spiders various kinds of drugs and alcohol to observe the effects on their webs. The results were pretty interesting...

http://www.filecabi.net/video/spiders-drugs.html

So....now everyone has had time to reminisce,  :shock:  :-))(
can we get back to the original fuckin question!! :|

Why wont they legalise it for MS sufferers, when medical evidence suggests that it helps?

Some of responses have been fuckin great on this topic by the way! Just asking a serious question about legality?


Cheers,

Millom

Sorry mate always tend to trail off a bit when im stoned :mrgreen:

You'd be pretty unlucky to get arrested for having a quick puff, MS sufferer or not. Although I could imagine that some MS sufferers wouldn't have a clue how to get hold of it, hense why it should be available on perscription.

And you should get a jobseekers allowance as well. £45 plus a quater a week.

Business opportunity FB ?

I don't have many contacts in the MS comunity I'm afraid

Although I suppose I could hang around outside some sort of clinic?

you need some form of sales and marketing guru

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:  :Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:  Mike D fuck off....Mike D fuck off

Still no-one has come up with a sensable arguement pro/for legalislation of the the said illegal substances!

I am being semi serious here.

Millom

only read the title of this thread. so not sure what it's about, but weed's never done anything for me and it's for softy students anyway. not bragging or owt but i've done harder druges which are frankly much better fun than what is in essence a quick ciggie.

Read the thread..............gatecrasher :twisted:  :)

Millom there is no arguement against it as far as i can see.I dont understand why it cant be made into a pill that you have to take at the pharmacist ?that way it wouldnt be sold on the black market and its a no lose situation.

Millom...if you're being serious MS, is a complex and puzzling condition....there are a number of ideas concerning aetiology and treatments, but nothing certain.   For example beta interferon up until recently was considerd a panacea... expensive and only available in certain postcodes, sufferers would seek legal redress  to try and acquire it as a treatment, but now its benefits are questioned.

 Against this sort of background, the chances of cannnabis getting a pass from NICE are < zero

I thought I did...!

As I said, the main argument against legalising it either totally or on prescription is the "side effects". Every drug has side effects. In fact every bloody paracetamol you take damages the liver slightly! :roll:

Take this list of possible side effects for Ibuprofen!!!

Its actually quite scary swindontartanarmy! Whats good for you, whats not!!  Reg i wouldnt fuck about with a subject like this.

It's a freind who i went to school with that is suffering.

Its a horrible condition, (from my point of view) this messageboard isn't really a suitable vehicle for discussing your friends case.....beyond stating I'm sure they'll appreciate any help and support you can give them.

Reg

Cheers.

Last I heard they'd developed the THC into some sort of liquid you spray onto your tongue. If it was put on prescription at least there would be some sort of dosage regulation as well as the other pros mentioned. However, long term you build up a tollerance to the drug and I can see people getting addicted.

Swings and roundabouts.

Does addiction matter sie pie when you know you are on the road to oblivion anyway?

It depends Millom. If the drug is produced cheaply enough then that is fine in a sense that increased usage will not lead to a postcode lottery of drugs etc. I think everyone should have access or none should have access. Slightly contreversial, but I do have experience of a family member who suffered from the post code lottery and spent thousands on a drug which definitely gave him a better quality of life.

Then there's the fact that cannabis is a popular recreational drug. This is where the main problem lies imo. If medical use of cannabis leads to addiction then it is fair to say that the user will want more of the drug. I just can't see how the NHS will be able to issue more than a small amount, because there could be suspicions it will fall onto the black market (which is innevitable anyway and just adds to the dilemma). Now this is where I plead a bit of ignorance because I do not know what other treatments are available and if they can be used in conjunction with cannabis in whichever form.

The final point I wish to make is that addiction is a dependence. This will mean the user of a drug will feel they cannot live without a drug. As you rightly point out, if you're on a road to oblivion then does it matter? I think it does, because without the drug it could make the person feel worse and if say government policy changed - which isn't out of the realms of possibility this could fuck people up. Then there's my points about increased usage...

In principle I'm all for it, but I can see there being a lot more problems created in the administration and regulation of a drug which in a wider sense would be illegal.

Cannabis is not physically addictive, the user cannot become physically dependent on it.

Surely a small amount of prescription cannabis going to the black market isn't going to make much of a difference amongst the load that is already being shifted?

Apologies if I've misinterpreted a point, think I may have.

Fair point about the amount of stuff available but I was leaning more towards the argument thatl the governement cannot be seen to be wasting money on a drug which would surely cost more than the prescription value. In other words the more they shift the more they lose. They'll want to keep a tight clamp on things. Saying that I do not know the costs or what it would cost the user, but that's my interpretation.

Cannabis may not be physically addictive, but neither are many other drugs and people can become addicted to those. If they are dependent on them mentally they still need that drug to live. That said I don't think the physical addiction thing is out of the realms of possibility. I mean, if you disagree with that, you're disagreeing that it has any health benefits at all.

I think you're possibly getting to the point that where it's not physically adictive it is possible to become physically dependent on it. Possibly.