Hillsborough Memorial

[ghanimah]

I have no intentions to get bogged down in a pointless debate - but a disaster is a disaster if it's 50 dead like in Bradford or 90 dead like in Sheffield. So I agree with David's sentiments.

...and then there is Heysel - another truly preventable disaster that is swept under the carpet a little bit.

Young, innocent people died in these events which is heartbreaking regardless.

Anywho, the memorial was very well done.

Agreed, it was just a comment that Hillsborough is treated differently because of its legacy - it changed football, Bradford didn't. It's not a reflection that those who died at Hillsborough are 'more important' - every death is a tragedy and heartbreaking as you say

[leefer]

Hooligans caused Heysel...they also caused Hillsborough as all the fences were erected to prevent them invading pitches to do battle.
My abiding memory is watching police and fans trying to pull the solid metal fencing down...as it happens many more would have perished if they had succeeded with the cush forward.
If memory serves me right one of the dead was from Fairford....a sad sad day it was.

[Christy]

What AlanMayes said to the word.  I too was on the Shrivvy, I too remember the initial casual indifference, and then the anxious hurry back to the car for Peter Jones.

I remember so much as if it was yesterday: the long, silent drive home; the need that night to get out and find out that Witney's scousers were safe and home; reading the papers in the library on the Monday morning until I was numb.  The Sun, The fucking Sun.

The weeks that followed were so emotional.  Everything, whether personal or national, seemed so intense.  Liverpool's return in the friendly at Celtic Park and then the replayed semi-final against Forest (I'd pulled the night before and got up too late for the lunchtime kick off.  I was gutted).  A double decker of pissed students singing "You'll Never Walk Alone".  And, as well as anything, I remember buying Doolittle on the Saturday morning, but not having the will, the energy or interest to even play it for over a week.  Even the fucking Pixies must wait.  Small things of great magnitude.  

I remember watching Swindon at St Andrews on the next(?) Tuesday night - should all football, life, stop or do we just get on with it?  The players walked out together during the silence and I can still hear the sound of studs on concrete as they came down the tunnel.

Just thinking about it makes me want to weep buckets.  Of course it could have happened to any of us (Croke Park once and being lifted off my feet, powerless, and swept onto the perimeter track at Highbury - no fences! - for me).  But it didn't.  It happened to them.

This has been a poignant and well observed week, but what strikes me from the recollections is how bitterly divided this country was 20 years ago to the point that, the old bill and Thatcher could habitually treat working class football fans as scum and get away with it.  There has, rightly, been much attention on how football changed as a result of 15th April 1989 - but maybe it was also a watershed in nudging us towards a more cohesive, progressive society as well.

[4D]

Very sad indeed.

[Rich Pullen]

Retract you statement did we 4d? It's okay to have an opinion you know.

[4D]

Retract you statement did we 4d? It's okay to have an opinion you know.

I know, but I am sensitive to other peoples views.

[Melksham Red]

I too was on Shrivvy Road that day and alanmayes' account is pretty much spot on. Good post.
Also, i've been lifted off my feet and have struggled for breath enough times at football to know just how horrific Hillsborough must have been. All very sad.
However, what is really fucking me off though is that Liverpool fans themselves seem reluctant to shoulder any blame whatsoever. We all know there were a number of factors at work that day but they blame every other fucker and do not acknowledge their own part in it. Every one of those Liverpool fans who turned up without tickets and forced their way into the ground has as much blood on their hands as the Old Bill and emergency services.

[Summerof69]

I was briefly reading the Taylor Report yesterday, and by that a similar incident happened in the '81 Cup semi between Spurs and Wolves, where some Spurs fans were crushed and had suffered broken legs and arms, and the police had reported that the capacity had to be reduced in the Leppings Lane stand...but nothing was done.

In the 80's, all the police were worried about was preventing hooliganism, and didn't care about the ordinary football fan.

After Hillsborough, it all changed, with the advent of all-seater stadiums in top flight games and most importantly the removal of fences. It also changed the way of policing football matches in the UK. I just wish European police forces would take note.

[thepeoplesgame]

I was briefly reading the Taylor Report yesterday

Melksham Red should do the same.

Taylor concluded that Liverpool fans were not to blame and that there was capacity to accommodate all those still outside the ground trying to get in if only the police had closed off access to the central pens after opening Gate C. In addition, he says crowd monitoring was inadequate and that the layout of the crush barriers in Pen 3 afforded less protection than it should.

Justice for the 96.

[Summerof69]

If you've got a few hours, read this :

http://www.fsf.org.uk/uploaded/publications/pdfs/interim%20report%20hillsborough.pdf

[overthehill]

Melksham Red should do the same.

Taylor concluded that Liverpool fans were not to blame and that there was capacity to accommodate all those still outside the ground trying to get in if only the police had closed off access to the central pens after opening Gate C. In addition, he says crowd monitoring was inadequate and that the layout of the crush barriers in Pen 3 afforded less protection than it should.

Justice for the 96.

I am not doubting you but if many of the supporters outside did not have tickets (alledgedly) how on earth could there have been capacity inside the ground for them.
Having seen footage recently most of the ground appeared to be packed solid.

Justice for the 96.

[pauld]

I am not doubting you but if many of the supporters outside did not have tickets (alledgedly) how on earth could there have been capacity inside the ground for them.

Most of those outside were not ticketless, they had been held up by unscheduled roadworks on the M62. There was capacity in the side pens, it was the central pen that became overcrowded and where the crush developed

[Melksham Red]

Whatever. It's just my opinion, that is all. And that opinion is that IN PART the fans are also to blame. Yorkshire Old Bill have admitted their guilt, so too have other parties. Like I said there are many factors and I have as much sympathy as anyone, I am a footy fan after all.
What justice do people want? Nothing will bring the 96 back.

[Reg Smeeton]

This is all very very sad and owt, but why do other football tragedys not get the same coverage i.e bradford. I'm not saying the coverage hillsbrough has been getting is unwarranted, just perhaps a little disproportionate

 The Burnden Park tragedy of 46, gets overlooked, basically 33 people were asphixiated to death, when too many people gained entrance to the terrace by illegal means.  The players went off while the dead and injured (500) were cleared and then they got on with the game.

I suppose directly after WWII, they had a slightly different idea of what constituted a disaster...many of those who got in were ex servicemen, recently demobbed.

The official Home Office report didn't specifically blame Bolton or the police, but recommended they make improvements to turnstiles and barriers at Burnden and capacities were reduced across the country.

[thepeoplesgame]

Whatever. It's just my opinion, that is all. And that opinion is that IN PART the fans are also to blame. Yorkshire Old Bill have admitted their guilt, so too have other parties. Like I said there are many factors and I have as much sympathy as anyone, I am a footy fan after all.
What justice do people want? Nothing will bring the 96 back.

Your opinion ignores all the available evidence, but don't let that dissuade you. While such opinions continue to be widespread, even after 20 years and despite the unequivocal nature of the Taylor Report's conclusions, there is reason for the Hillsborough Justice Campaign to continue its fight.

I would like to include one quote from the Taylor Report if I may: "It is a matter of regret that at the hearing, and in their submissions, the South Yorkshire Police were not prepared to concede they were in any respect at fault for what occurred. Mr Duckenfield, under pressure of cross-examination, apologised for blaming the Liverpool fans for the deaths. But, that apart, the police case was to blame the fans... Such an unrealistic approach gives cause for anxiety as to whether lessons have been learnt. It would have been more seemly and encouraging for the future if responsibility had been faced."

Justice for the 96.