Thetownend.com

Maggie dead

The denizens of many Northern Towns reaching for the bunting

Link please

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155

I suppose now we'll have loads 'compassionate' socialists celebrating the death of a woman.

fucking ace - hate the bitch

Caused major damage to this country which has never recovered. I believe she was genuinely trying to do what she thought was right though and do not celebrate her death.

I will

Unfortunately it came 34 years too late

YES! YES! YES!
That put a spring in my step. Shouldn't this be in the    "Trivial things that make you smile,or make you feel good" thread?

State funeral so we get a Bank Holiday?

I have no sympathy towards her I am afraid.

I had a massive stroke earlier and it didn't do me any harm.

This will go down badly on here but I don't give a toss, its my opinion....
A lot of people will remember her for bad stuff like the pit strike, Poll tax etc but at that time a lot of what she did was needed, its a shame Cameron does not appear to have the brains or balls Thatcher had.

I don't know much about politics, nor do I know much about Thatcher as it was before my time, what I don't understand is how she divides opinion so much.

Guy, judging by some of the prior posts you may well be in a majority

 I seem to recall a few years back, there was an incipient controversy, as to whether she would be accorded a state funeral, as a victorious war leader. Be interesting to see what happens.

He may well do but we have no industry left to destroy.

This!

Weirdly, I don't have any strong opinion on her. Not sure keenly celebrating the death of an ill, old lady is something I empathise with either though.

In the event of a state funeral, will sufficient troops be available to line the route of the funeral cortege because the Armed Forces are so overstretched in Afghanistan?

She pissed off northeners - big tick in my book  :)

And Europeans - another tick.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155


So does that mean a day off or not?

This will be fun....much better to have gone quietly.

My mum was able to buy her own council house because of the Thatcherite government, so for that alone she did some good.

this is where i'm at

I can't really formulate an opinion because I know nothing of what she did.

Maybe it will co-incide with May Day?  :drool:

watch the news then.

I'm pretty indifferent toward her as well, she did some good, she did some bad, it probably evened itself out.

No way does she deserve a state funeral though, no former PM should IMO

She stole my milk when I was at primary school.

That'd be good. Pretty sure there can't be a day off for this. Gideon has been moaning enough about the last couple of Bank Holidays having an adverse effect on the economy.

I used to pour my milk in the sandpit.

I'll buy you a beer to celebrate - I'm going to join the "ding dong the witch is dead" conga outside the conservative club later

He's too busy doing his homework

Oh hello greatest politician of all time.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Josip_Broz_Tito_official_portrait.jpg/220px-Josip_Broz_Tito_official_portrait.jpg

I feel a bit uneasy with people celebrating the death of someone, whoever they might be.

Always have their family at the back of my mind and what they must be going through.

You really wish you went to uni didn't you?

Complete indifference on my part. Before my time. If she fucked off the northerners half as much  as they all say she did then she can't have been all bad.

Any decent jokes yet?

Sickipedia will have loads.

What a tragic loss.

No state funeral.

Ceremonial funeral with military honours at St Pauls Cathedral. Whatever the fuck that means.

No sympathy here.
She cost me and 2000 other Swindon railway workers thier jobs.

No lying in state is about the only distinction I think, so same costs etc

I'm saving my fist pump for Tony Blair.

That's why my dad hates her too...

I'm saving my fisting for Cameron.

Will we get the funeral procession though the streets or will that be avoided to evade the inevitable rain of projectiles hurled by the nothern hordes descending on London?

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:
Jeez if she had a state funeral it would probably mean that the twat Blair would be entitled to one too when he pegs it !

Not sticking up for her but my dad lost his job in 1972 from the railway, 7 years before she came to power - the downsizing and terminal decline had alreeady started

Poll tax, selling off the social housing for a pittance leaving a housing shortage, privatization of everything, ruining the railways, closing the mines. Massive decisions that still effect the nation today.

These high profile deaths have a habit of happening together.

Phil the Greek next then?

Everyone on facebook has become political, I like it.

Genuine question, what was the flip side that made her liked by some then?

A lot of Norwegians on Facebook and Twitter are strangely delighted about it all. Odd.

Basically, she's fucked up the country just like most politicians that have succeeded her have done and will continue to do so. Don't see the point in dancing on her grave or crying our eyes out either.

personal gain.

The same thing that always happens in life - some get richer, some get poorer.

I'm waiting for the one program I want to watch this week get bumped for the inevitable tribute program.

And you're all scabs if you watch it.

First female prime minister. Falklands war. Reducing the power of unions. Positively changed the world view of Britain.

Even Blair, Brown and Miliband have all acknowledged some of the positive impacts she made.

A lot of people are bitter towards her for personal reasons and refuse to look at the bigger picture.

 :popcorn:

She was certainly a strong leader. Reading some of the not secret any more files on the Falklands won her a lot of respect from me. Apparently the Yanks asked us to back off from totally annihilating the Argies when we rolled back into Stanley and Maggie told them to do one.

Just imagine if we had a PM like that for the last 10 years. The entire world be a very different place.

I'm happy , I'm happy and I'll punch the man that says I'm not

Conviction or Consensus politics?

I prefer Comsensus, myself, but against bullies such as Galtieri and Scargill then it's Conviction for me.

Like most leaders, if they do not start out that way, they eventually come to believe in their own myth or become corrupted by power and a third term should (as in the USA) be illegal
.
Disliked most of her policies and her tone and her emasculated coterie but she admirably stood for what she believed rather than for what she believed would get her elected, so fair play

A minute's silence at the Manchester Derby tonight. Out of interest, those who have vehemently aired their dislike for Maggie on here and are attending the Franchise game, will you jeer a minute's silence if it's held tommorow?

She was involved the Taylor football report wasn't she? If so; Reuined football, shes a cunt. If not; still a cunt.

There's normally 90 mins of silence at that place anyway so another minute won't make a difference

Whether you liked her or not, agreed or disagreed with her policies you have to respect her for what she did and how she did it. Think they summed it up on the BBC when they said the one thing you could not feel towards her was indifference. Which is probably the main thing that has been missing from British politics since she resigned, it's all gone a bit meh.

Just been announced on BBC News that there will be a funeral car from Westminster Abbey to a church opposite the Royal Courts of Justice on Fleet Street, where her coffin will be placed in a carriage and then onwards to St Pauls. The procession goes ahead!

Bring it on  :sofa:

Oh boy, this is unwise. At least it isn't through Barnsley.

The best thing that Thatcher did, was siding with Reagan to ratchet up the Cold War. OK at the time of protesting at places like Aldermaston, Fairford, Greenham Common, and a lesser extent GCHQ, it seemed as if Armageddon might be round the corner.

But, it helped bring about the downfall of the Soviet Union...thus enabling Eastern European birds to come to this country.  :)

Don't think its ever right to jeer a minutes silence for someone personally no matter whether how you felt about them. My family hated the woman with a passion no need to jeer imo

I thought i'd have a look to see if George Galloway had anything controversial to say on the matter, and lo and behold he hasn't dissapointed!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305760/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-George-Galloway-leads-chorus-celebration-left.html

and the Durham Miner's aren't letting go of their time in the limelight:

Durham Miners' Association: Death was a 'great day' for coal miners

Cor, the Mail will knock themselves out with that level of rage.

lets hope your mum doesn't upset anyone ::)

I definitely would. A throughly despicable woman. She showed no respect or compassion for anyone and doesn't deserve any back.

http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/

:facepalm:

How was this good?  Nearly 1000 people died so she could win an election.  Also, the armed forces were badly equipped, and she cosied up to Pinochet...hardly a positive.

For all her faults, I fail to see how Maggie can be blamed for the Faklands war!

Refusal to even discuss the issue with the Argies.  She was happy to push it to the point of war.

I think you're scraping the barrel a bit there.

Main reasons that Argentina invaded the Falklands were political, don't see how the response was. Sure it helped and gave her an opportunity but that wasn't the reason or the driving force behind the decision.


Discuss the issue? You mean like Chamberlain did with Hitler? How did that work out?

Then we shall have to agree to disagree.  However, jonny72 said she should be praised for it, so even if we can't agree about the start, should she be praised for sending a poorly equipped force and for her relationship with Pinochet?

Not at all.  To compare Galtieri to Hitler is overstating the mark somewhat.  There is also a colossal difference between beginning discussions about land you own, and giving away land you don't.

Why the fuck should Maggie or any other UK politician discuss the Falklands with Argentina? They're our territory regardless of what they might think.

Because it might avoid war.  Granted it may not have worked, but we'll never know.

No I didn't. I gave it as an answer to why she was liked by some.

Let's not forget that it was and continues to be a UK territory, which deserves the same respect and treatment as everywhere and everyone else in the UK. Or are you suggesting that the next time UK nationals are in a similar position we should just say fuck it, not our problem as its so far away.


They invaded the Falklands, the war had already been started by Argentina.

First point, you're right, sorry for the misquote.

Second point, I said nothing of the sort.

Indeed, but my question about being so close to Pinochet remains.

You did say that though Jonny. I think to say some would disagree would be putting it mildly.

Excellent news! As the wicked witch of Westminster said herself.....REJOICE.
The people of South Wales, North East England, Scotland, South Yorkshire and all those places where honest working people used to make things will be celebrating tonight. The bankers and financial thieves who have robbed us all, will be crying into their champagne. Good riddance bitch.

Well with the power of hindsight perhaps it may have been an idea to have a chat about things first but did anybody seriously expect the Argies to invade? Maybe Cameron should now talk with that Argie bird to prevent them invading again?

No but you're suggesting the correct response to a UK territory being invaded and occupied by another country is to invite them round for drinks and a chat. Bollocks to that, if it was me I'd expect an immediate military response.

No, I'm saying discuss the issue before invasion and occupation.

Honestly don't know whats up with some of you.

For fucks sake, love her or loath her she was an old woman - someones Mum and someone's Nan

Have a bit of fucking respect !

The US invaded Grenada in 83, and didn't even tell us. The Queen is head of State..would we have just let them get on with it, if it had been Australia?

Who'd want to invade Australia?

Well the US might to give them more players to chose from and a better chance of winning the Ryder Cup.

She died from a stroke, an illness-wracked old woman. She was a grandmother and leaves behind two children. It seems deeply wrong to me that, whatever your opinion of her political agenda/ideology, or whatever she did during her life, people would celebrate a broken old woman's death. Personally I think she was the worst thing to happen to this country since the Luftwaffe, but that doesn't mean I can't respect the fact she was a human being and deserves to be treated as such

Falklands was necessary because attempts at diplomatic resolutions of the situation (which admittedly were not persued with a lot of vigour because Maggie saw the election looming) were made moot by the Argentines invading. A beligerrent foreign power invading sovereign, self-nominated British soil needs to be opposed.

You wouldn't have thought the Malvinas too high on anyone's list.

The Japanese considered invading Australia in 1942...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/He%27s_coming_South.jpg

I'm sure the Australians have half an eye on Indonesia...massively overpopulated, world's largest Islamic state and in the grip of environmental meltdown.

Fuckin right I will.

I'll give her the same respect she gave the average working man. I wouldn't jeer a minutes silence and I won't be out celebrating but I also won't forget the complete and utter fucking carnage she created and the misery and human suffering she was responsible for. A social re-engineering program where greed is good and money was status with no questions asked as to how it was acquired and how many people were fucked over to obtain it.

Her achievements?She made a tiny percentage of the population a lot better off and enabled a few people to buy a few shares,if you were lucky enough to have some spare cash.She didn't just "reduce the power of the Unions" she pretty much smashed them to pieces.That may have been an achievement to people who've never been a member of a union,but to others it was the signal of mass unemployment.People who had never been on strike felt angered enough to do so due to her policies-nurses,teachers etc.I also believe that she cultivated the over riding selfish society that I feel is more prevalent today.

I will stay silent in respect of privatisation of Railway, Gas and Electric as all my bills have reduced on a massive scale...

Fuck off.....NO...minutes silence for ANY politician!

..........yes, it definitely wasn't anything to do with inefficient practices

What if it's Wales ?

I loved her

But then again I'm a posh cunt

I'm not convinced the Falklands war was needed. Blowing up a ship in retreat certainly wasn't. She also did fuck all good for Ireland and made things worse.

She was a nasty bitch. She spent her last days at the ritz yet condemned so many pensioners into poverty.

I wouldn't call you posh Fred.

:)

I'm Posh Red, and I most certainly didn't love the old bat.

Couldn't care less about anyone involved in politics, they're all total cunts, but Maggie Thatcher was more insightful than anyone regarding climate change.

She opposed catalytic converters as she said we weren't to know the future impact of all the carbon dioxide. She said we should be investing in fossil fuel alternatives, or something not too dissimilar.

Insightful and proven correct, on many matters of climate, but of course she was a Tory so everyone hates her and likes to talk of how evil Tories are.

Margaret Thatcher

Born - Grantham 13/10/1925
Died - London 08/04/ 2013
Sadly Missed - Brighton 12/10/1984

Hateful, nasty, vindictive, bitch. Normaly I wont speak ill of the dead but for her, I'm glad to make an exception.
Rejoice the wicked witch is dead...............
Just rejoice at that news..

:clap:

Very good.

The only other one I have heard is:

First Jimmy Savile and now Margaret Thatcher.  Good news for miners everywhere.

FWIW I won't be celebrating and I would think anybody jeering a minute silence is a pretty despicable human being and would be better off expressing their opinions on her leadership in other ways.

The iron lady died years ago

I wish she fucking had. About 30 years ago.

 

You're a hateful little chap aren't you

Proper reaction to a leader's death:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWen7mFuQY8

Always wondered why some think the Belgrano decision was controversial - Whilst I felt sorry for the poor fuckers killed on board - War is hell.  I still think it was a legitimate target, moving away from the zone or not..... the Argentinian navy didn't venture back out did it? Job done.

It's not as if it's a fucking game - it was a war. Hit them hard and hit them when they don't expect it.

It wasn't exactly cricket for the Argentinians to blow up our ships in Bluff Cove whilst our troops were still on board?

Thatcher had balls at the very least.

Fuck off nice but dim.

Don't care much for politics but Maggie was behind taking away free school milk which was a bit of a blow to many, especially to the milk monitors who got out of class for 20 minutes every morning. A warm bottle of milk wasn't the highlight of my day that's for sure.

Agree regarding the sinking of the Belgrano, war is war and though yes horrible for the people killed on board but who's to say the ship wouldn't come back round and take out a load of ours?

Although with Thatcher I see both points she did good and she did bad but she certainly gave the country a much need kick up the arse.

1 minutes silence .... fuck off, I'll jeer when I want, didn't do it for Diana the Queen of Tarts either or Pol Pot or Jeremy Thorpe or the King of Tonga (I might have done that one actually)

Here is the Iron Lady being grilled by the late Diana Gould, who was a Geography Teacher from Cirencester. Taught at my old secondary school in fact, but left just before I started I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbY9pTH8IW4

I think a lot of people forget (or don't know) how shit everything was in the 70s.

Once Britain was an empire, and it was ruled by an emperor. Then Britain became a Kingdom, and it was ruled by a King. Then Britain was a country, and it was ruled by Margaret Thatcher. Now Britain is a shithole.

Britain is a beautiful country,  you really need to get out and see it! :D

I live abroad! :)

I plagiarised the above from someone who knows much more about politics than I do!

As Stranglers man surely you realise the 70's were ace. For example, there's a famous survey which rates 1976 as the best year of the 20th Century on a whole raft of criteria....

Here you go even the Torygraph has it, when UK had Labour Government under Jim Callaghan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/3337143/Remember-1976-Britains-best-ever-year.html

Not sure why but i remember the minutes silence for Diana.  0-0 against Forest i want to say, probably wrong.

I would imagine a few Liverpool supporters were jumping for joy when the news of her death came out!!

Nice.  ::)

People have every right to hate her. She ruined plenty of their lives so who can blame them for being happy she's dead. It's not like she is here to see it and lived a life of luxury anyway.

Her death has thrown up plenty of debate and it's been really interesting jogging my childhood memories. I lived in poverty as a kid with my step dad out of work and desperately trying to get a job after serving in the army. The working class were treated terribly during the early 80's.

Similar to those who seem to think that the last labour administration was some sort of utopia entirely achieved by them... until it went wrong.

One thing is for sure someone like Thatcher wouldn't have put up with this shit free for all benefits system. Or mass immigration. It was very much her way or the highway.

The dross we have in charge at the moment are fucking useless and dont compare when you look at things that way.

I understand people hating her if they were affected directly by her actions and decisions though. I respect their reasons.

Your way off the mark here IsOB....Tories know that for a strong economy, you need immigration, they know it helps economomically, it adds billions onto GDP.  What they don't like, is if the immigrants get uppity. One of the early major problems of the Thatcher years were the race riots that broke out in, if memory serves, St Paul's Bristol, before spreading to Brixton, Toxteth and Handsworth. The Scarman Report, commissioned by the Home Secretary, highlighted racism within the police and failures of Government policy to address it.

Thatcher knew that by, piling 3,000,000+ onto the dole queue, you would need some sort of benefits system, otherwise starving and destitute people in huge numbers would not look good in one of the globe's advanced economies.

Although Eurosceptic, Thatcher did realise, the importance of the single market and signed up to it, she also realised the importance of expanding the EU, to take in particularly the Eastern European countries, where she felt there were many instictively on the side of Britain, both because of recent history, and our perceived role in the fall of the Soviet Union. This decision was always going to lead to some Eastern European immigration.

Her decisions put many on benefits. In many cases whole communities. Things were a damn site harder for those on benefits then too. My siblings and I relied on hand downs and jumble sales during the years inbetween my step dad finding work. I remember the jumble sales at Pinehurst school(the estate and school I spent my primary years at) and they were full of people buying items with the small change in their pockets. Hard times.

Training programmes and support for families wasn't there then either. Thatcher didn't bother with those who despised her. She didn't believe in a society,it was survival of the fittest,fuck the rest of them.
Those people shat on still despise her after her death. She is the main reason I will never vote Tory as I remember living with nothing. That cunt Camoron worshiped her and is just as much as a cunt(albeit a wet cunt)

What were the other options to the mine closures?

They were inefficient, losing money and reliant upon Government subsidies. The same applied to various other industries, drastic action needed to be taken and if Maggie hadn't done it who would? The unions also needed bringing under control, which they brought upon themselves following their behaviour in the 70's when they continually brought the entire country to a standstill.

It wasn't nice for those affected but it was a necessary evil as the country needed fixing - something which even most of the Labour front bench for the last 20 years wouldn't deny.

Reminds me of the bankers

I always figured it wasn't so much the closures, more so the lack of any real support or anything afterwards

Better give them a bonus then.

Is the country fixed then? Could have fooled me.

could have kept them open. The stock piling of coal was all planned as they wanted the strikes to happen. The union thing is a myth. They were there to protect workforces. Removing them and blaming them t was to make things easier to impliment without unions fighting for rights. Breaking unions made it easier to destroy industry and privatize public services.

Yep, many of which we still subsidise even today.

Who was going to pay the subsidies to keep them open? You honestly think it's right that the rest of the country's non-union workforce pay higher taxes to keep inefficient, militant, union controlled, loss making industries going?

What union thing is a myth? That they continually crippled the country in the 70's? That they used strikes to blackmail the country in to giving in to their demands? That they were antiquated organisations that needed bringing up to date? They weren't there to protect workforces, they were there solely to protect the interests of their members whilst not giving a toss about the rest of the country.

Maggie wanted to take on the unions, she laid a trap for the miners and Scargill walked straight in to it. Don't see how you can blame her for other peoples stupidity - Scargill miscalculated and the miners paid the price. They didn't have to go down the route they did, no one forced them.

thank you - I am

She was also the reason we have such a dependency on benefits culture now. The DSS were told to get people off off the dole on to incapacity benefit, basically telling blokes in their 40s they would never work again just so they wouldn't appear on the unemployed total as they were medically retired.

I think her funeral should be put out to tender and the cheapest bidder wins it, in the spirit of the free market.

But isn't that a famous example of a quote being taken out of context?  If you hear the whole thing it is clear she is not saying there is no such thing as society per se, she is just saying society is a collection of individuals and families all making their own personal decisions and helping each other out.  Seems a reasonable comment to me.

Who the fuck would want there kids to work down the mines anyway?

Should have been done a lot slower and with more compasion....but closing them took us out of the dark ages...literally.

She won three elections....easily.

Lot of myth on how unpopular she was....to greedy union men lining there own pockets and the such she was.

My bet is most people celebrating her death are out of work socialist thinking people...who wasn't even alive when she ran the country.....not to mention low life scum the like of who started the riots last year..

Did i vote for her...no.....but she had more bollox than all the Prime Ministers since....labour and Tory.

Thatcher won the 1979 election on the back of a carefully orchestrated campaign against Labour based on strikes in the public sector, and unemployment which stood at 1.4 mill....the infamous Labour Isn't Working slogan.

Now though,  what happened was the split in Labour and formation of the SDP, which by the time of the Malvinas War, had a massive lead in opinion polls over both parties....Liberal had taken a hit over the Jeremy Thorpe scandal.

It was victory in the South Atlantic, and the split in the left/centrist parties, which handed Thatcher an opportunity to pursue the worst elements of her programme, and gain two further victories.

To quote Alexei Sayle...what do you think of Shirley Williams?....I want to go to the toilet.

Well said Lee

It was the Falklands war you twat

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blackberry/p.html?id=3046390

Good article, well written.

Her death means nothing unless it brings people together. Just a mini call to arms that. Pick your sides.

pick your nose

I just did. got a good big edible one.

I wouldn't want my kids working down a mine no, but the mines were the only employers in whole communities, shutting them down like that without alternative employment was unforgivable, and she did it deliberately to get back at the miners for the strikes in 1974. We now have to import coal.

It is not a myth how unpopular she was. I lived through the pain of the early 80's as  did a group of people I work with. All of them cheered when the news came through. She was despised by millions. The only good thing I can say about her is we had a great demo on 31st march 1990. Thanks for the night Maggie.

It's clear that some members here have been seriously impacted by her decisions. Can someone paint a picture of what Britain, and more importantly, your life would have been like today without Margaret Thatcher?

I'd never have been forced to watch the Iron Lady.

It's pretty much an impossible thing to do...my life would have panned out very differently. I'm not judging for better or worse, just different. But we're all affected by the decisions of politicians, in some way or other, and I go back to Churchill.

As John Donne said "no man is an island"...as Paul Kantner said "he's a peninsula"

This is why I find it a bit sad, that large numbers of people fail to engage with the democratic process....we've plenty on here like that.

Thatcher could have shaken up the mining communities and its workers by changing things,closing them wasn't needed. Instead of working with unions she set out to destroy them. The whole thing was set up and forced Skargill's hand. Devious,cruel and brutal on her part. She didn't look to bring things upto date,she wanted them wiped out.

The unions represented their own members for sure but what is wrong with that? They are not the brutes and troublemakers they get labled as. It's not as if their members were living lives of luxury. They were just a pain in the arse to Thatcher and she wanted to flog everything anyway,they would obviously be against it so removing them was the way around it,blaming them to fool the public into it was another tactic and still gets swallowed to this day.

To be fair though, the unions were a pain in the arse to anybody who wasn't a member of one and, in the end, cut it's own throat by refusing to concede its stranglehold on government policy making. By believing it would bring the government to it's knees through strike action (because that's how it worked in those days) the Miners Union, and more importantly Scargill, didn't anticipate the stubbornness of Thatcher or change tact when it was faced with ultimate failure.

I policed the miners strike and felt sorry for the families that were torn apart by it. Ultimately the blame for the closure was down to Maggie but it was Scargill's arrogance that cost the miners a lot more.

You are correct in saying that Thatcher would never negotiate with Scargill because she knew there was no negotiating that Scargill - it was make or break and so takes me back to my original question, had Thatcher broke, what would we have become as a country?

It wasn't exactly a secret though. The plan implemented by Maggie was devised in the 70's and had been leaked to the press and published. So Scargill knew what they had planned and still walked straight in to it, refusing to change stance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridley_Plan

Serious question and not having a dig, have you ever been in a union and at what level?

I used to work in local government and somehow (not sure how) ended up as a Uniosn rep, we had a dispute with employers which affected me and the majority of our branch members where without any consultation they changed our terms and conditions to the tune of about £100/month.

We decided to ballot for action and called a meeting  seeking central Unison help and advice, and Unison never bothered to even send anyone. When asked the regional rep admitted that unless it involved either women workers or minimum wage they didn't want to get involved as it would not get them the support they wanted, I and most of my colleagues rapidly resigned after that.

Not doubting the rank and file but anyone at higher levels in a union is in it for one person only - how many labour politicians have got forward via this route, I suggest if you want a strangely accurate portrayal of union activity watch When the Boat Comes In from the 1970's.

Oh and if any of you can put forward a sustainable solution that would have kept the mines viable and sustaionable into the 1990's I suspect you may have one of the best economic minds of a generation.

Arthur is a right man of the people isn't he....

However, in December 2012, Scargill lost a similar case concerning rent on his flat in the Barbican, London. For years the NUM had been paying £34,000 annual rent for the flat on Scargill's instructions, without the knowledge of NUM members or many senior officials; Scargill claimed the NUM should continue funding his flat for the rest of his life, and thereafter for any widow that survived him. Chris Kitchen said: "I would say it's time to walk away, Mr Scargill. You've been found out. The NUM is not your personal bank account and never will be again."

Yes and just a normal member.

Regarding your issue above then I assume that although you had valid claims your rep couldn't see it drumming up enough support to do anything?
If so it shows how the weakening of unions has happend, just what Maggie wanted.

No disputing that but Thatcher got what she wanted and fucked over whole cummunities in the process. Scargill tried and failed but at least he tried.

Impossible question to answer isn't it?
I would have hoped that we would have been providing transport, fuel, utilities at fair prices and efficiently by now though. All owned by the public

I remember the mid seventies, and the continual striking that was going on. Crap times.

In the perfect world the UK would be a co-operative where you get out what you put in... if you put nothing in you get nothing out.  If you can't find employment then you earn your benefits by doing service in the community. If you work then you receive a share of the profits and if you own a company all your share holders must be employed.

Unfortunately PLC's are the modern day union - a union for it's shareholders.  Every decision made is with them in mind, often with little regard to the people who actually generate the revenue, the employees and customers... now, if only we had a union to stand up for them... ;)

Trouble is that when it is owned by the public there is no stability because the 'CEO', board members and policies policies change every 4 years... this is how the unions gained there strength; because they knew if they had enough supporting members they could influence the incoming CEO to meet their terms or face strike action.

I think its got bugger all to do with Maggie and more to do with modern politics.

Politicians and by extention (as they aspire thus) union leaders are now in it for a career, its got little to do with civic responsibility these days and all to do with having a career like anyone else, therefore they are only interested in what they look like, not what they may achieve for their members.

To emphasise I am in no way a tory. I am all a bit Mewh about Thatcher as she didn't really affect me growing up in the countryside in the 80's as whilst my family had worked inside in Swindon for three generations my dad was out before it closed.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/arthur-scargill-sues-miners-union-129834

I.5 million apartment supplied and paid for...donkeys years he has had it....car and phone paid for....at his Barnsley residence.

All supplied with money that was paid into the unions by......guess what,skint miners along with other trades.

A rich socialist just dosnt seem right to me somehow.

Of course the rules and entitlements he is afforded were probably drawn up while he was  a leading player.

Wonder if he will be charged the bedroom tax on his two properties :D

If the mines really were an inefficient waste of money, and the cost of modernising was prohibitive, i don't understand what else could have been done but to close the worst performing ones. It's tragic for the miners affected, but that's life - no one is owed a living. A lot of the rage coming out of those areas seems to be because they lost their jobs in a failing industry that was in terminal decline... not really anyones fault, just one of those things. You can't keep employing people just for the hell of it, especially back in that era - things needed changing.

I'm not an expert on this by any means but is it not better to have them employed (even if the industry isn't as efficient as it once was) than paying them to sit on their arses with no purpose in life?

Increasing unemployment keeps inflation down by means of low wages

True but on the flip side is surely an extra burden on the state in the form of benefits?!

The idea would have been that they would eventually find work elsewhere, I imagine. I genuinely don't believe any PM really wanted a massive unemployed contingent - it won't have been a decision taken lightly.

Ahhhh that's ok then. Now i can't see what all those people put out of work were complaining about.

Some excellent points being made in this thread with differing views. Politics does that and there are usually always counter points to be made to any arguement. It's just a case of where you sit individually with each viewpoint I suppose.

I note Dave Whelan is calling for a minutes silence at matches. No chance of that being observed at all. Not happy the woman has died but she doesn't deserve everyones respect in my opinion.

Eh? I'd complain if I was put out of work... doesn't make me right though, just looking out for my own interests.

Pretty much where i sit too arriba. I would observe a minutes silence because i'm not a moron (well i like to think not anyway) but I can understand why many wouldn't. It would be a joke, even David Mellor thinks so.

Nah maybe it doesn't make it right, but if you and vitually the whole town where you live were suddenly put out of work then i think your right to complain would increase. Maybe you might even have a point. If you then had to compete against your whole town for any scraps then I for one would certainly not expect you to start mourning the death of the person attributable 30 odd years later.

It just wouldn't happen. Opinions are too strong and divided on her. Some think she is now in hell though I dont believe that,she's dead and that is that imo.
Reckon it could kick off at her funeral

I've seen a number of people trying to attribute current problems to Maggie. Worth pointing out that she was in power for 11 years and since she left 23 years have passed, including 13 years of Labour government. Plenty of time for things to be changed and fixed.

Part of the reason some things haven't changed is that some of her policies weren't that bad. Moving from direct to indirect taxation for example, a policy that was continued by the Labour government. The current tax rates of 20%/40% (albeit with higher VAT) is a Maggie policy, previously they were 33%/83% (albeit with lower VAT). Privatisation has continued as well, albeit under different names - such as outsourcing and PFI. Plus even Labour have been turning their back on and distancing themselves from the unions to a certain degree.

I do sympathise with the miners and many others that lost their jobs. But I don't agree with the way they responded, which no matter what anyone says was solely down to them - but I'm sure some will blame the trouble that has already occurred and the inevitable disturbances at her funeral on her as well.

If they'd have gone down the peaceful negotiation route more jobs would have been saved and they'd have been able to negotiate additional concessions - such as increased regeneration. Interesting that people that claim Maggie should have negotiated with Argentina don't think the same about the miners.

I want to know where my stake in: British telecom, British gas, the national rail service etc , state assets that were worth billions, i now have to pay more to use, where has all the money Thatcher got from selling that lot gone to? I haven't got any of it that's for sure. thieving cunts the lot of them.

I believe to cover a bit of the debt the country had run up in the '70's, when we had to go cap in hand to the IMF.

I think this thread conclusively proves a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

To be honest he would call for a minutes silence for Mick Philpott if it meant getting his name in the papers.

I was barely alive when she was dethroned, and don't have enough to join the debate. But I thought this was a well written piece, in the face of all the 'dancing on the grave'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

Why do you have to be alive to contribute to a debate?  I wasn't alive during WWII, but feel able to offer some understanding.

Because this thread seems to be full of people who did live through it, and if I chipped in with my half baked and half lost A-Level history knowledge I'd be shot down in flames

I read that in the library early. Excellently and entertainingly written. I was going to post a link myself but given how unpopulor Brand seems to be amongst many I thought better of it. He's staggeringly articulate. Shame about the buffoonery.

Or miras payments to the newly housed-up property owning democracy, we spent more on that than we ever did on housing benefit incidentally.  Thatchers death has stirred up a lot of old memories, the battle of the beanfield, the poll tax riot, they were more interesting days than now in many ways, or maybe that's just because I'm getting old!  :hmmm:

I found it offensive. He seems to be a supporter of terrorism given the "her aggression towards our neighbours in Ireland" comment. For the younger readers the "neighbours in Ireland" are the ones that left 5 people dead and 31 injured in an attempt to assassinate Thatcher with a bomb.

Since when has 'neighbours' translated to 'terrorists'?  That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

I think Brand's referring to the collective punishment meted out to Nationalist communities (the indiscriminate shootings at events like Bloody Sunday, internment of hundreds on the flimsiest of suspicions etc.). and the - since admitted- state collusion that existed between police officers and soldiers and Loyalist killers.

That's just my take on it anyway. The truth can be offensive but ultimately very liberating.

I imagine the same place that all our stakes in the country's gold reserves went when Brown decided to sell at the bottom of the market.

I don't remember the precise years (was it 72) but you cannot lay Bloody Sunday at her door.

This isn't aimed at you, but your post did make me think of...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/people-with-no-idea-who-thatcher-was-ecstatic-that-shes-dead-2013040865066