israel v russia

[Colin Todd]

Its the same in most major footballing countries, but some very average players that have never really performed consistantly well in an England shirt are hailed as 'world class' by the dross media (sun etc) and everybody believes it. In truth only Michael Owen is world class and Beckham (not anymore), Gerrard, Lampard etc not so.

So Gerrard is a "very average" player? .....so average that he was named in the European team of the year this year and was subject to a £30m+ bid from Chelsea a few years ago??  Lampards not in the same league as an all round player, but he's scored 20+ goals from midfield for the last 3/4 seasons

Remind me how your uber-captain Ballack got on last season? oh yes, he was shit wasnt he.

I'd define "world class" as being the best 3/5 players in the world in your position. Gerrard is one of the top 3/5 centre mids in the world currently. That said, the majority of the current England side are not world class, but there isnt a national side in the world that can boast more than 4/5 in my opinion

England have some very good players, the problem under McClown has been lack of tactical awareness, poor team selections, lack of leadership, lack of bottle

[Kinky Tom]

World Class to me means the top players (of course) in the world - if you were to put a squad together to play the best players from another planet, hypothetically speaking, then I'd have Gerrard in the squad, not so sure Owen would make it in though, then there'd be a couple of our defenders too I reckon - Rooney would probably get into the stand-by group of players.

[Matchworn Shirts]

World Class - performing to a high standard at the world cup
Has "uber-captain Ballack"- yes; he was one of the few players that dragged us to the final (along with Kahn) in 2002.
Gerrard- ummmmmmmmm nope
Lampard- ummmmmmmm nope
Owen - yes
Beckham - yes

[Kinky Tom]

Whatever Dach, if you can't see that Gerrard is one of the best in the world (also is someone who dominates games in the Prem which Ballack hasn't done once) then you're more deluded than I thought - either that or you're just so German that the thought of somebody being better than Ballack actually makes you physically sick?

[Matchworn Shirts]

I am not comparing Ballack to Gerrard, that wasn't the point
Ballack is over here for the money and more fool Chelsea for lining his pockets. Gerrard is good for Liverpool but a non-entity for England.

The point was that players shouldn't be labelled as world class, and that perhaps England don't have enough quality to qualify, not that the player don't put in the effort. + Other teams try harder against the so called bigger nations.

[Kinky Tom]

That's more like it, I still disagree about Gerrard though - I was at the Andorra game in Barca - which incidentally was colder than the alps were all season long - and you could see he was the only player out there with a will to make sure we won the game - in this respect he's similar to Ballack when he wears his German shirt.

That game epitomises England though, Lennon was out on the right wing and clearly had bags more pace than their full back yet he never once just knocked it past him and flew into the space behind him - Gerrard was the only player out there that was willing to go that extra mile.

[Colin Todd]

World Class - performing to a high standard at the world cup
Has "uber-captain Ballack"- yes; he was one of the few players that dragged us to the final (along with Kahn) in 2002.
Gerrard- ummmmmmmmm nope
Lampard- ummmmmmmm nope
Owen - yes
Beckham - yes

Thats total bollocks.  So because Ballack had a good world cup in 02 (and I agree he did) that still makes him world class now?  El Hadji Diouf was great in 02, is he world class at anything other than spitting and wife beating?

And which world cup was Beckham good in exactly? '98 when he played 2 games befotre getting sent off?

What about Giggs, George Weah, George Best even? Not a world cup game between them. Which obviously means thaty wernt world class under your illogical teutonic rules

[Colin Todd]

Can someone find the 5-1 game for me on youtube please?

[Matchworn Shirts]

If I was a Chelsea fan I would be pissed off with Ballack, he only seems to be fit when there is a Germany game on the horizon. He really doesn't give a damn about Chelsea it seems (similar to Owen & Newcastle). Having said that I think that he may well be passed his best now - I hope he proves me wrong but not to sure.

[Colin Todd]

Dont ignore my points beacuase you were wrong herman :x

[Simon Pieman]

Thierry Henry isn't world class either then on that basis.

[Matchworn Shirts]

Thierry Henry isn't world class either then on that basis.

I don't think he is, he goes missing in the biggest games

[Colin Todd]

I give up

[Matchworn Shirts]

Dont ignore my points beacuase you were wrong herman :x

which ones, Giggs - no not world class, Weah - maybe; George Best, an alcohol waster

[axs]

Dont ignore my points beacuase you were wrong herman :x

which ones, Giggs - no not world class, Weah - maybe; George Best, an alcohol waster

Thats ridiculous. George Best never wasted any alcohol.