Public sector pensions strike?

[Arriba]

You said that those in poorer areas will have a lower life expectancy because of these changes.

What part of that is not saying people will die earlier?

you've misquoted me numerous times in this thread. I'm not going to keep repeating myself as what i said is here in the thread. i certainly didn't make comments like 'they're all going to die because they're being asked to pay another £450 a year into their pension' which you said i did.

if you think i'm talking shit then tell my why i am, i'm yet to read a response from you that tells me why i'm wrong. But i ask you deal with what i do actually post.

[Samdy Gray]

I think your argument that people will be forced into poverty because they are being asked to contribute more to their pensions is nonsense.

For the lowest earners affected by the changes (those on £15k), as I have pointed out previously the extra they'll have to contribute is £450 per year. I cannot see how that is going to affect someone's life expectancy.

That better for you?

[Simon Pieman]

My life expectancy has just shortened after reading the last few pages of this thread.

[Don Rogers moustache]

Look common sense,government stole pensions,been caught out,you pay extra £250 year and take a pay freeze, pay in for another 5 years, goverment can pay pension,I work for Royal Mail pay £120 month pension,goverment did not invest for 10 years(took pension holiday)now billions in the red and blaming us,but I still had to pay,wheres my money?
lib con thats right

[Summerof69]

Look common sense,government stole pensions,been caught out,you pay extra £250 year and take a pay freeze, pay in for another 5 years, goverment can pay pension,I work for Royal Mail pay £120 month pension,goverment did not invest for 10 years(took pension holiday)now billions in the red and blaming us,but I still had to pay,wheres my money?
lib con thats right

Blair/Brown let companies take 'pension holidays' in the late 90's before the full effects of Brown's £5-10bn annual raid on pensions. Labour ruined ALL pension funds accross the board with this stealth tax. The Private sector have been paying through the nose in the last 10 years and now it's the Public sector to feel the pinch...the only difference the Public sector have been still offered a final salary pension, which there are very few left of in the private sector.

[ghanimah]

Blair/Brown let companies take 'pension holidays' in the late 90's before the full effects of Brown's £5-10bn annual raid on pensions. Labour ruined ALL pension funds accross the board with this stealth tax. The Private sector have been paying through the nose in the last 10 years and now it's the Public sector to feel the pinch...the only difference the Public sector have been still offered a final salary pension, which there are very few left of in the private sector.

I thought it was now going to be based on an average salary not final?

[Barry Scott]

You wont get any of that under a tory government it will only get worse.
Labour with all their faults improved public services

You've sort of provided both the problem, the cause and the solution in that one post. It wouldn't matter who was in power, shit is fucked and it needs to be sorted.

[Arriba]

You've sort of provided both the problem, the cause and the solution in that one post. It wouldn't matter who was in power, shit is fucked and it needs to be sorted.

I know Gordon Brown fucked up but i honestly believe he was trying to do the best for everyone. Blair was a tory in a red cloak and Brown was onto a loser the moment he took on the leadership.
Remember, we were all lapping it up for years under Labour and they were good years for the general public. There were and still are some genuine good back benchers amongst them.

I don't believe the tories are for the good of all. The rich got richer and the poor got poorer under mad maggie and it looks like it's happening all over again. 18 of the 22 cabinet ministers are millionaires telling us we are in it together. Such bullshit.
Cuts will bite hard. Not just the pensions. Vital services built up by Labour will be lost. The tory party are brutal with their destruction of anything public. Always have been in my living memory

[jonny72]

I don't believe the tories are for the good of all. The rich got richer and the poor got poorer under mad maggie and it looks like it's happening all over again. 18 of the 22 cabinet ministers are millionaires telling us we are in it together. Such bullshit.

I don't remember seeing any evidence to support the belief the wealth gap narrowed under Labour, quite the opposite in fact as there is plenty to suggest it got wider. Labour aren't short of their share of millionaires and privileged backgrounds either.

Whilst they put a lot of money in to public services I don't believe we got value for money as a lot of it was pissed away on bureaucracy, consultants and middle management. Of course it's difficult to really tell as all politicians manipulate statistics but I didn't see any major improvement in any public services first hand under Labour.

The Tories would argue that by reducing public spending they put more money in peoples pockets which they can spend as they choose. You can debate whether this is good or bad but portraying it as simply cutting public spending is very simplistic.

[ghanimah]

I know Gordon Brown fucked up but i honestly believe he was trying to do the best for everyone.

Sorry bollocks. You do not deliberately tax the poorest and most vulnerable in society in order to give a tax break for those who will win you an election, nor deliberately put 10,000's people out of work to carry favour with the unions because his premiership was on the line, if you think it's best for everyone.

[Arriba]

Sorry bollocks. You do not deliberately tax the poorest and most vulnerable in society in order to give a tax break for those who will win you an election, nor deliberately put 10,000's people out of work to carry favour with the unions because his premiership was on the line, if you think it's best for everyone.

Could you explain further please?

[ghanimah]

Could you explain further please?

Am happy to. First point refers to the abolition of the 10p tax band - which subsequently paid for 2p cut on higher wage earners. It was a trick Brown employed in his last budget as Chancellor not only to win the Labour leadership election but also to win over 'middle England'' He was warned repeatedly by Blair, Civil Servants and the Treasury before the announcement of its impact on lower earners  but still ahead he went - he hoped to getaway with it. The trick was picked up within hours of that budget by journalists. As with all Brown budgets he revelled in trying to trick people. This time it was on the back of the poor which rightly backfired.

As for my second point, I refer to the EU Agency Workers Directive on which we had a veto. Brown rightly threaten to veto it because by Government's own stats it would cost tens of thousands of jobs but in order to gain favour from the Unions when his Premiership came under pressure he agreed. The Unions had calculated that those job loses would force companies to employ more permanent staff who were 'more unionised'.

That is just two reasons why the man was a complete cunt and not interested in 'everyone' And I haven't touched on Brown and McBride or his deliberate 'economic scorched earth' policies to make it harder for the incoming Tories (coalition) before the 2010 election.

[oxford_fan]

You're basically saying those on the £15k threshold are all struggling to make a living and put food on the table and that they're all going to die because they're being asked to pay another £450 a year into their pension.

Now who's Daily Mail?

[TheDukeOfBanbury]

Now who's Daily Mail?

How did your shite excuse of a football team get on today ?

Forever in our shadow and just love this inferiority complex that appears to get bigger every year you have with us.

[Arriba]

Am happy to. First point refers to the abolition of the 10p tax band - which subsequently paid for 2p cut on higher wage earners. It was a trick Brown employed in his last budget as Chancellor not only to win the Labour leadership election but also to win over 'middle England'' He was warned repeatedly by Blair, Civil Servants and the Treasury before the announcement of its impact on lower earners  but still ahead he went - he hoped to getaway with it. The trick was picked up within hours of that budget by journalists. As with all Brown budgets he revelled in trying to trick people. This time it was on the back of the poor which rightly backfired.

As for my second point, I refer to the EU Agency Workers Directive on which we had a veto. Brown rightly threaten to veto it because by Government's own stats it would cost tens of thousands of jobs but in order to gain favour from the Unions when his Premiership came under pressure he agreed. The Unions had calculated that those job loses would force companies to employ more permanent staff who were 'more unionised'.

That is just two reasons why the man was a complete cunt and not interested in 'everyone' And I haven't touched on Brown and McBride or his deliberate 'economic scorched earth' policies to make it harder for the incoming Tories (coalition) before the 2010 election.

Thanks. Interesting points. The thing with politics is that every decison made is viewed differently.
It is a subject that interests me,and i've learned that political arguements cannot be won. It's up to people to make up their own minds regarding it all really. You certainly make your points well and i respect them.