BBC News: Di Canio in Swindon manager talks

[pauld]

I think he's trying to have it both ways - fascist for the home crowd who love it, just fascist-curious for the foreign press. It's pathetically transparent, like Nick Griffin trying to deny his conviction for anti-Semitic racism, long history of Holocaust denial etc and I can't believe people are so desparate to have this psycho in charge of our club they're prepared to kid themselves to this extent

[mrverve]

Done quite enough thanks. They're localised variants of the same creed. But tbh I wasn't directly equating the two here anyway - even if you accept there is a difference, the swastika is an explicitly Nazi symbol. As is the Totenkopf. Both are used frequently by Lazio's Ultras, who also have a long and serious history of extreme racism. Hence my deliberate use of the term neo-Nazi, as distinct from neo-fascist.

There are varying degrees of what the Ultra's are and represent. They are not all in the same boat. Your right (no pun intended) some sections have used the Swastika regularly in the past, they have also been a section that have been openly racist. However you cannot categorically state that ALL of these Ultras carry these beliefs. They are are all fascist, Lazio as a club has near enough always been right-wing. Roma on the other hand have politically always leaned heavily to the Left, hence the increased rivalry.

Paolo Di Canio isn't a racist, a nazi and doesn't represent or indeed give consent to any of the ideologies incorporated in Nazism or racism. He believes certain (not all) elements of Fascism. The salute he used was a 'Roman salute', a gesture which represents Fascism and which came to prominence before Nazism.

[BANGKOK RED]

I'm not sure of him.

His views are extreme which will always associate him with Nazism, but this does not necessarily make him a Nazi nor a racist. I don't think it's anywhere near as transparent as Griffin.

I do think we don't have enough to condemn the man and I for one find it quite refreshing that a footballer is capable of some depth of thought.

[BANGKOK RED]

Paolo Di Canio isn't a racist, a nazi and doesn't represent or indeed give consent to any of the ideologies incorporated in Nazism or racism.

He calls them vile, in fact.

[Don Rogers Shop]

I think he's trying to have it both ways - fascist for the home crowd who love it, just fascist-curious for the foreign press. It's pathetically transparent, like Nick Griffin trying to deny his conviction for anti-Semitic racism, long history of Holocaust denial etc and I can't believe people are so desparate to have this psycho in charge of our club they're prepared to kid themselves to this extent

I Have highlighted where i think the problem is here because even though you and sonic can post links to the shit he has done others have post good enough replies to his explanations why .Please don't take this the wrong way Paul but when you have a bee in your bonnet nothing or anything will change your mind. As you rightly said your opinion is based on what you THINK he is trying to say and not actually fact.


You say he ran around with hooligans etc when he was younger well that's a few of us on here fucked then isn't it. People can change people can grow up.

Is he the right man for the job?I don't know.Am i prepared to back him if he was to be given the job yes i am. You got to draw the line somewhere   

[sonicyouth]

I'm not sure of him.

His views are extreme which will always associate him with Nazism, but this does not necessarily make him a Nazi nor a racist. I don't think it's anywhere near as transparent as Griffin.

I do think we don't have enough to condemn the man and I for one find it quite refreshing that a footballer is capable of some depth of thought.

Bit harsh, most footballers are very capable of thought.


It's just not approaching rational thought.

[BANGKOK RED]

Anyway, this has been an educational thread for me.

I thought the rivalry between Roma and Lazio was purely because they are local. Had no idea it was politically motivated as well.

[ghanimah]

Yes but you don't have Fuhrer tatooed on your arm or go round making Nazi salutes to known neo-Nazi hooligans do you? Soft soap it all you want, Di Canio knows what the Lazio Ultras stand for, he knows damn well what Mussolini stood for (including the anti-Jewish laws and deportations to death camps) and he knew damn well what he was doing. And still "admires" both

I think you're making a too simplistic historical comparison between Nazism and Italian Fascism. The Nazi's raison d'etre was racial purity and the 'Jewish Question', which was unique in the history of European dictatorships.

Conversely Italian Fascism from the start was based on a concoction of many political philosophies yet racial purity was never originally its primary consideration - many members of the Italian Fascists were Jews. Italy never had systematic death camps and yes they collaborated with the Nazis at times but then it's difficult to say no - like most other European Countries who participated - when you have a gun / tank pointed at your head (metaphorically speaking). Mussolini had a contentious relationship with Hitler - mainly 'cos the Italians were crap at fighting so Mussolini needed his help - therefore his relationship with Hitler was more on pragmatic terms than anything else. And we're not exactly whiter than white either when dealing with dictatorial nutcases for political pragmatic reasons a la Tony Blair and Gaddafi.

Anyway I have no reason to believe that Di Canio personally is a racist nor would pick or buy players on that basis - it's easy to label or generalise - Di Canio himself has denied that he's racist and for those reasons alone I would not object to him being Swindon manager unless he proved otherwise.

However that said we need a manager we can all support next season and obviously, judging at least by this forum's discussions, that would not happen - so for that reason I hope he doesn't get the job.

[Dazzza]

I must admit I wanted to find an angle around old Paolo’s salute.  We all do something a little stupid from time to time and based on other applicants being pushed about, as crackers as it sounds Di Canio is an "interesting" option.  However, pic below is case open and closed.  The look on his face sums up.  

[url width=426 height=316]http://www.football-hooligans.org/images/hooligans/europe/paolo_di_canio1.jpg[/url]

While the old tarring brush and pot is out, along side a Paedo and a nutter that head butts his own players whatever your thoughts are on his political outlook the salute in the great scheme of things doesn't compare in terms of a rap sheet.

[THE FLASH]

This is great.....give it to him....

[Reg Smeeton]

I must admit I wanted to find an angle around old Paolo’s salute.

About 120 degrees...

[Coca Fola]

He performed a fascist salute towards the openly and popular racist Lazio fans - perhaps not inciting racial hatred himself but supporting them is bad enough. That is why I take exception to it.



Can I post the photo of Mussolini's corpse yet?

Isn't it a Roman salute originally which wasn't fascist.

[Nemo]

Yes, and Hitler was originally an artist, but a Portrait of him does not indicate a loving of the arts.

[THE FLASH]

Maybe if we all chant Prutton he will step out of the dug out and give the Roman emperor thumbs down.........i would love that!!

[Coca Fola]

Are you a Lazio fan?

I didn't say that all Lazio fans are racist or fascist. Di Canio admitted that the gesture was aimed at a minority - are you seriously denying that there is a strongly racist element amongst Lazio fans? http://fourfourtwo.com/news/italy/78401/default.aspx

Unless I'm mistaken, the Nazi salute was derived from the Roman salute that Mussolini also favoured. Aside from that, Di Canio has repeatedly stated his admiration for a man who supported Hitler. I don't really see how it's hard for you to understand why it makes me feel uncomfortable?

And why the fuck does it matter? It's a football club, who gives a toss about what political views he has. It has nothing to do with football. Stop being a whiny little bitch.