fuck him, he was shit vs. give him a chance vs. better the devil you know

[Kinky Tom]

so, dougie is gone and knight is on trial...

many goings, not many comings...

plenty of talk today on the forum, some happy JD's gone some not, some going to give knight a chance, some not happy...

there are a couple of players who've gone now that i'd have been quite happy to keep, namely JP and JD, that many are happy have left.  yes they had poor seasons last term but we know they were absolutely cracking the season before last.

now (and every pre-season) we're linked with players who have been known to have been pretty poor of late and you get people saying they'll give them a chance to prove themselves.

my point is that players who we know damn well, from first hand experience, to be really pretty good are only being remembered for last season and people saying "that the cunt can fuck off" or the like but then you get the same people saying that they'll give trialists or new signings a chance no matter how shit they've been for their previous clubs recently.

at what point should we just say it's better the devil you know and stick to what we have/had - depending on the oportunity to do so of course - rather than gambling on other clubs cast offs?

JP was a complete revelation in the play-off season after a couple of seasons of mediocrity afterall.

for what it's worth i'm very underwhelmed with our dealings at the moment, although i am actually happy with who we have brought in permanently.

i've always been one of the don't panic brigade - 'plenty of time yet' etc but we really need to step it up soon if we're to have an acceptable season ahead

[Simon Pieman]

What the season before last proved is that it may not be the quality of the player but the quality of the collective.

Maybe it's a bit harsh on Douglas, but the effort was only there when it was too late.

[Bathtime]

I think we would all have been a surprised nay disappointed had the new man kept last season`s players. Surely there had to be a clear out, get some new faces. Not easy to attract to the league we are in. I think we have to give the new man our whole hearted support and I am glad that we have had a much needed clear out. So no its not better the devil you know here me thinks.
Douglas is a difficult one as I think he had lost a lot in the last season. Interesting to see how he performs with Brentford, if you can be arsed to keep track.....
I am sure Di Canio will want to make a big impression as a manager...just watch us go....

[nevillew]

What the season before last proved is that it may not be the quality of the player but the quality of the collective.

Come on the Borg !

[Peter Venkman]

Brian Clough didn't have the best players to work with at Derby or Forest but he got them motivated and playing as a unit, its something hardly any teams do any more, they are more the sum of thier parts rather than a whole team playing for each other.

Thats the art of being a great manager, getting the best from your individuals, but not so they improve as individuals but improve as a team, covering for each others weaknesses when needed.

[Nick Bamosomi]

Brian Clough didn't have the best players to work with at Derby or Forest but he got them motivated and playing as a unit, its something hardly any teams do any more, they are more the sum of thier parts rather than a whole team playing for each other.

Thats the art of being a great manager, getting the best from your individuals, but not so they improve as individuals but improve as a team, covering for each others weaknesses when needed.

Absolutely. Well said.

[Batch]

Thats the art of being a great manager, getting the best from your individuals, but not so they improve as individuals but improve as a team, covering for each others weaknesses when needed.

Something that Wilson got right in year 1 and wrong in year 2. Largely with the same set of players!  But the question was were there players that could have stayed but contributed to the new squad?

IMHO yes, Douglas, LJF and JPM  are the three I am disappointed to see go. I accept its a big IF, but IF Douglas and JPM could recapture their form then they would be massive assets to any promotion seeking side.

By not retaining them it makes PDC's job that much harder.

[jimmy_onions]

Brian Clough didn't have the best players to work with at Derby or Forest but he got them motivated and playing as a unit, its something hardly any teams do any more, they are more the sum of thier parts rather than a whole team playing for each other.

Thats the art of being a great manager, getting the best from your individuals, but not so they improve as individuals but improve as a team, covering for each others weaknesses when needed.

...or in the case of England, not even a sum of their parts. Now it takes some manager to mange that!

[Kinky Tom]

Something that Wilson got right in year 1 and wrong in year 2. Largely with the same set of players!  But the question was were there players that could have stayed but contributed to the new squad?

IMHO yes, Douglas, LJF and JPM  are the three I am disappointed to see go. I accept its a big IF, but IF Douglas and JPM could recapture their form then they would be massive assets to any promotion seeking side.

By not retaining them it makes PDC's job that much harder.

And that's my point in a nutshell, ok maybe them going was out of our hands but people saying good riddance etc need to realise it will be very hard to replace their quality - which i'm sure PDC could have helped them recapture.

I'm sure those three players will go on to have good seasons with their new clubs

[Bathtime]

And that's my point in a nutshell, ok maybe them going was out of our hands but people saying good riddance etc need to realise it will be very hard to replace their quality - which i'm sure PDC could have helped them recapture.

I'm sure those three players will go on to have good seasons with their new clubs

We shall see...replace their quality? Not difficult, Lecs hardly played, new broom and all that...out with the old in with the new..mark my words.

[BANGKOK RED]

Believe it or not, they are not the only players out there that are a bit good.

[Batch]

Believe it or not, they are not the only players out there that are a bit good.

The point is that we now have to find even more quality players because these have left. Its harder to get quality replacements because competition is high and we are in div 4.

There could be some truth in the argument a good manager will get more out of an average player than a bad manager gets out of a good player. I'd rather a good manager gets more out of a good player

In summary it not that PDC won't get it right, but he now has more work to do and so its harder.
-----
Oh and on Lecs, yes he hardly played. We still need a squad player to fill his boots- though this could be Flint.

[BANGKOK RED]

competition is high and we are in div 4.

The players we get need to be better than the players' other teams in div 4 get.

We are all in the same boat, only we have more resources than most (if not all) others. If, with our resources, we cannot assemble one of the best teams in the league then we have problems that run much deeper than players leaving.

[Batch]

Agreed BR, but you also have to take into account that those teams may have spent a season or two getting their players to their club. It doesn't look like we are going to buy our way out by poaching player, so it comes down to availability.

Having said all that I do think our biggest challenge is recruiting up top. And that hasn't changed with Douglas, JPM and LJF leaving.  Even with Knight we'd need two more. As was the case when we had Benyon.

[BANGKOK RED]

Don't forget as well we have a much larger pool of players to choose from than most

Crawley, for example, may be flashing the cash but I doubt there's many players on the continent willing to play at Crawley town for some manager whose name I don't even know.