New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[RobertT]

It's not a massive leap, unlike Carlisle and Exeter is my point. If you can't see that then I give up.

Adding a P&L provides insight that cannot be gleamed from a Balance Sheet update alone - the latter will show the loss or profit due to the change in the Retained Profit line item, but will not provide any insight into how that occurred.  Usually, the basic P&L will give you a clue as to whether it was a trading loss or due to something extraordinary.  As an example, we could have made a profit but the reality was that the trading position was loss making and the club covered that with a one off windfall from an onward player sale.  I use this example because it has happened to us in the past.  On the flip side, we may have made a trading profit but had to write off a significant bad debt we had been counting in the assets on the BS.  That would not be great for the business, but wouldn't materially impact our financial future if we can trade at a profit.

Now, to add a further layer, being able to identify source categories of financial performance can greatly enhance our understanding of the financial position and future viability of a business, especially if we have more than one year to review.  It's still not detailed enough to make tactical decisions from, but it can provide great insight into how the business is performing.  For example - knowing the variation in Gate/Ticket revenue from year to year will enable a casual observer to do some basic trending analysis, or look at gate numbers and determine any interesting trends there (like revenue per customer).  It's normal for clubs to include ALL ticket revenue when reporting this line item, so season tickets plus matchday, the club realises season ticket revenue across the season, game by game.  That single extra detail can lead to a treasure trove of information that gives us insight into performance.  It enables us to hold people to account - so statements cannot be made that the data available will not support.  It's precisely why a business will often go to the lowest level of requirements enforced in production of accounts and why Power went with the basics.

[horlock07]

It's not a massive leap, unlike Carlisle and Exeter is my point. If you can't see that then I give up.

Be interesting what Carlisle's next set of accounts look like going back into more private overseas vs. long term fans, local lads done well ownership.

[RobertT]

Be interesting what Carlisle's next set of accounts look like going back into more private overseas vs. long term fans, local lads done well ownership.

I am intrigued by their new owners, they seem quite normal (for over here) and genuine.  They are well off, but not Billionaires or anything.  Their logic in going for Carlisle seems quite well determined, like they really gave it some proper thought.  But why do it all?  I know there are likely some tax benefits in the USA, but is it really worth it?

Anyway, i imagine they produce the basic from here.  We are middle of the road I think.

[STFC_Manc]

Adding a P&L provides insight that cannot be gleamed from a Balance Sheet update alone - the latter will show the loss or profit due to the change in the Retained Profit line item, but will not provide any insight into how that occurred.  Usually, the basic P&L will give you a clue as to whether it was a trading loss or due to something extraordinary.  As an example, we could have made a profit but the reality was that the trading position was loss making and the club covered that with a one off windfall from an onward player sale.  I use this example because it has happened to us in the past.  On the flip side, we may have made a trading profit but had to write off a significant bad debt we had been counting in the assets on the BS.  That would not be great for the business, but wouldn't materially impact our financial future if we can trade at a profit.

Now, to add a further layer, being able to identify source categories of financial performance can greatly enhance our understanding of the financial position and future viability of a business, especially if we have more than one year to review.  It's still not detailed enough to make tactical decisions from, but it can provide great insight into how the business is performing.  For example - knowing the variation in Gate/Ticket revenue from year to year will enable a casual observer to do some basic trending analysis, or look at gate numbers and determine any interesting trends there (like revenue per customer).  It's normal for clubs to include ALL ticket revenue when reporting this line item, so season tickets plus matchday, the club realises season ticket revenue across the season, game by game.  That single extra detail can lead to a treasure trove of information that gives us insight into performance.  It enables us to hold people to account - so statements cannot be made that the data available will not support.  It's precisely why a business will often go to the lowest level of requirements enforced in production of accounts and why Power went with the basics.

What's the point of this post, all I'm saying is that STFC accounts provide more information than most. Tranmere provide a little bit more info but don't help in any meaningful way, I could use Carlisle to enable an analysis of STFC accounts but Tranmere I couldn't.

[RobertT]

What's the point of this post, all I'm saying is that STFC accounts provide more information than most. Tranmere provide a little bit more info but don't help in any meaningful way, I could use Carlisle to enable an analysis of STFC accounts but Tranmere I couldn't.

Good lord.

The point was that STFC were making the stated aim of being more open and transparent than other clubs - the goal to be number 1.

The current CEO then responded to a question last night where he seemed more than comfortable with what we produce as being sufficient, when it is indeed more than the minimum, but nowhere near what CAN be done.  Examples were provided and he seemed oblivious to them.

If the club wants to be number 1, then what they produce is clearly insufficient.

So either they a) up their game or b) change their stated aims

I am merely pointing to examples of what more openness looks like.  From a little bit more, to a lot more.  Every little bit more provides people step changes in how they can review the information - maybe Joe Bloggs gets little, but I can review Tranmere's accounts and give you a summary of their performance at a far more detailed level than I can for Swindon.  With Carlisle's, I could probably get close to making some decisions on what to do with the business, so detailed are they.

[4D]

As Rob is saying, there is more to the accounts than just the balance sheet. The balance sheet is where you are at, the p&l lays out the journey.

[The Million Pound Man]

Why are you calling me out?

I'm interested in the opinion of an astute business person, you seem to know a lot about business.

[Leggett]

To add to the posts about checking tickets, my u11 son and I get our season tickets checked before each game without fail. Also had to ditch a water bottle they discovered once as well.

[STFC_Manc]

Good lord.

The point was that STFC were making the stated aim of being more open and transparent than other clubs - the goal to be number 1.

The current CEO then responded to a question last night where he seemed more than comfortable with what we produce as being sufficient, when it is indeed more than the minimum, but nowhere near what CAN be done.  Examples were provided and he seemed oblivious to them.

If the club wants to be number 1, then what they produce is clearly insufficient.

So either they a) up their game or b) change their stated aims

I am merely pointing to examples of what more openness looks like.  From a little bit more, to a lot more.  Every little bit more provides people step changes in how they can review the information - maybe Joe Bloggs gets little, but I can review Tranmere's accounts and give you a summary of their performance at a far more detailed level than I can for Swindon.  With Carlisle's, I could probably get close to making some decisions on what to do with the business, so detailed are they.

You can't do anything with Tranmere and that's my point. I've said all along they can give more detail. Get off your high horse.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

To add to the posts about checking tickets, my u11 son and I get our season tickets checked before each game without fail. Also had to ditch a water bottle they discovered once as well.

Checked how? Before you reach the turnstile? Which stand do you have STs for? I’ve never had mine, or Mrs Audrey’s, ST checked. Just rock up at the turnstile, scan the ticket and go in.

[tans]

Checked how? Before you reach the turnstile? Which stand do you have STs for? I’ve never had mine, or Mrs Audrey’s, ST checked. Just rock up at the turnstile, scan the ticket and go in.

How old are you Aud?

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Be 69 in April. Mrs Audrey is a whippersnapper.

I know what you’re going to say, but I don’t look a day over 67.

[Costanza]

To add to the posts about checking tickets, my u11 son and I get our season tickets checked before each game without fail. Also had to ditch a water bottle they discovered once as well.

I had mine checked before Mansfield. Not sure they knew what they were looking at but there was a delay.

We probably use the same turnstile, mind.

[Mooneyraker]

You'd think it would be pretty easy to clamp down on this. The old Tube ticket gates used to flash up CHILD if you used a child's ticket, or it can beep at a different tone, alerting a steward. I really don't think this is the source of our issues somehow...

[Quagmire]

Like many things with the club, if they paid the money for the proper technology that shows what ticket fans are using, then they could avoid it.
They won’t pay for it though.