New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Nemo]

I'm still paying into the Trust. I'm not absolutely delighted with everything that's happened and happening, but I think there's far more chance of the Trust improving their performance than there is of any other fan organisation replacing them, considering them being the legal body that is part of the County Ground joint venture.

I'm also very aware that they're all volunteers, so perhaps a bit more forgiving on timescales of them doing stuff than others.

[Mooneyraker]

I'm still paying into the Trust. I'm not absolutely delighted with everything that's happened and happening, but I think there's far more chance of the Trust improving their performance than there is of any other fan organisation replacing them, considering them being the legal body that is part of the County Ground joint venture.

I'm also very aware that they're all volunteers, so perhaps a bit more forgiving on timescales of them doing stuff than others.

Agree, no one is going to achieve critical mass with a new body and we are stuck with them because, as you say, they part own the Ground.

I actually think that, on that basis, we should all be far more invested in the Trust. Every fan should be a member.

But their membership model is woefully unclear and I think the board needs 'refreshing' to say the least.

Cue someone saying wHy DOnT YoU STanD iF yoU cARe sO mUCH...

[horlock07]

So in conclusion...

We have an owner that a fair few of the fans don't trust who doesn't have a pot to piss in;

We have a Supporters Trust that a fair few of the fans don't trust and are in fact becoming openly hostile to;

Yes there possibly is hope as identified above, but that needs the club and fan base to be united n(or at lest to pretend to be together with the same objectives), as and when crowds drop (and the online sniping continues) revenues will drop and the ability to borrow will drop similarly (leaving us ever more dependent upon the 'crook' who owns us to fund us), plus no (sensible/straight/legit) investor in their right mind is going to get drawn into such a toxic situation (especially where 50% of the asset is owned by a community organisation with all the potential ball ache that entails), similarly the Academy stuff all sounds nice, and I know a place where it could get planning permission but sadly that's owned by one L Power (possibly his way back in, otherwise you are getting into site finding and planning which is extremely difficult as we have found on multiple occasions over the years.

Would anyone have the 5-10 years leeway to do the above, if Clem et al and the Trust stay on board and we start depending on youth players with an eye to developing them for sale (cos' that approach has gone down really well with our fan base in the past hasn't it), cue pages of accusations about money being taken out when they are sold) I give it an hour before moaning about lack of ambition starts, fuck me we are presently 3 points off the play off's and reading SM you would think we were battling relegation.

We're pretty fucked aren't we, TBH its more depressing on here these days than when we were going out of business every Friday afternoon.  

[Batch]

It's a good point. The appointment of Clem's Axis alumni is pretty concerning all round. How many other L2 clubs have CEOs with zero relevant experience? Rob Angus at least cared deeply and had a solid track record at a major financial company.

it's either great, because he's got people in he trusts to do the best possible job

or it is concerning because the independence of Rob A and the finance guy have gone. The trust should be monitoring as Rob says, and probably are. But you can always pull the wool to the outside world.

it comes down to trust, and the publicly available info that helps drive that perception 

I think you know personally my trust in the setup has gone right now. But that's me

[Batch]

on paying into the Trust, I'm still doing so for two reasons

1. I don't think they are doing anything conspirital. I'm hoping what they say in public and what they think in private are different. Not saying Clem is 'the enemy', but keeping him close may be best for them

2 I'm too lazy to cancel

2b. a The trust isn't a closed shop. Anyone can put themselves up for election. Maybe change will evolve them.

[RobertT]

@Horlock

I think the fans would give some space if a properly detailed "Master Plan" was shared, not just some vague ambitions, but a detailed plan about what we intend to achieve and what we need to do get there and some flesh on the bones about how, including the financial aspects.

I'm not going to come up with that plan in 5 minutes, but I am sure there are plenty of areas of Swindon and it's surrounds that could be utilised for development - I mean, go speak to the Council about assuming the lease on the Oasis land for example (one of many, just throwing stuff out there).

Youth Academy and Recruitment & Sales - package it with the training ground we need, a combined facility and approach to how we make the club a success on the pitch and fund it going forwards.  Identify the investment needed and ongoing costs to support.  Identify options for financing  - you know what, Fitton is well regarded and he openly took money from the Austin sale.  Fans will tolerate a good plan that see people get a return.  Lets say, again this is just spit balling, we finance it by essentially selling bonds - investors/companies/people invest in the deal to set-up the facilities and systems needed, they then get a % return on profit for any player sold who was brought in through that investment.  Fuck, even the fans could chuck their cash at that, like betting but on something you actually care about.  Creativity is key - but having a plan in the first place with clear targets is needed.  Right now we have a winding timeline on a PPT talking about working towards T2 Academy status and some scaffolding.

I know this sort of stuff takes time and money, but you do not get the latter without working on the plan, and we've had over two years to flesh something out.

[horlock07]

or it is concerning because the independence of Rob A and the finance guy have gone.

What do you mean, as often stated on here and Twitter Rob A was deeply involved in the management of the club and by not coming out and publicly slating his employers on social media was part of the problem.  I see he has got another job as well, so good luck to him!

on paying into the Trust, I'm still doing so for two reasons

1. I don't think they are doing anything conspirital. I'm hoping what they say in public and what they think in private are different. Not saying Clem is 'the enemy', but keeping him close may be best for them

2 I'm too lazy to cancel

2b. a The trust isn't a closed shop. Anyone can put themselves up for election. Maybe change will evolve them.

Pretty much this, not sure what people actually want them to do, release a statement every other day making accusations and demands, no doubt there is a hell of a lot going on in the background that we never hear about?

[RobertT]

I just had a quick look, and as far I can tell, that last News on the Trust STFC site about the CG was April.  Now, I'm not privy to the stuff going on locally and may have missed other publications, but that seems a bit poor.

I do think the Trust remains the right vehicle though.  I respect the fact they are volunteers - I did suggest a while back that they should have hired someone, a consultant or even full time person, to lead the project on their behalf.  They are a not for profit, doesn't mean everything has to be volunteer led.

[horlock07]

@Horlock

I think the fans would give some space if a properly detailed "Master Plan" was shared, not just some vague ambitions, but a detailed plan about what we intend to achieve and what we need to do get there and some flesh on the bones about how, including the financial aspects.

I'm not going to come up with that plan in 5 minutes, but I am sure there are plenty of areas of Swindon and it's surrounds that could be utilised for development - I mean, go speak to the Council about assuming the lease on the Oasis land for example (one of many, just throwing stuff out there).

Youth Academy and Recruitment & Sales - package it with the training ground we need, a combined facility and approach to how we make the club a success on the pitch and fund it going forwards.  Identify the investment needed and ongoing costs to support.  Identify options for financing  - you know what, Fitton is well regarded and he openly took money from the Austin sale.  Fans will tolerate a good plan that see people get a return.  Lets say, again this is just spit balling, we finance it by essentially selling bonds - investors/companies/people invest in the deal to set-up the facilities and systems needed, they then get a % return on profit for any player sold who was brought in through that investment.  Fuck, even the fans could chuck their cash at that, like betting but on something you actually care about.  Creativity is key - but having a plan in the first place with clear targets is needed.  Right now we have a winding timeline on a PPT talking about working towards T2 Academy status and some scaffolding.

I know this sort of stuff takes time and money, but you do not get the latter without working on the plan, and we've had over two years to flesh something out.

Agree with all of this and I honestly hope you are right, possibly my cynicism stems from writing many such plans and then finding them damn near impossible to actually deliver.

I am possibly just suffering from misery fatigue with the consent stream of (basically the same) stuff being said over and over and over again!

[Batch]

What do you mean, as often stated on here and Twitter Rob A was deeply involved in the management of the club and by not coming out and publicly slating his employers on social media was part of the problem.  

Nah, he was a chess prawn [sic].
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it's not lack of plans that worry me the most. Its the characters around the club. If this were just Clem I'd be worried, but less so.

[Cookie]

I'm paying in to the trust and generally always will because they're the mitigation for should things go tits up. So to keep them going strong is important in my opinion.

Regarding their performance, not great but as per Nemo, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt because of the voluntary nature of their roles. I'd like a professional supporters trust but that's nonsense, subs would be huge.

[Bob's Orange]

on paying into the Trust, I'm still doing so for two reasons

1. I don't think they are doing anything conspirital. I'm hoping what they say in public and what they think in private are different. Not saying Clem is 'the enemy', but keeping him close may be best for them

2 I'm too lazy to cancel

2b. a The trust isn't a closed shop. Anyone can put themselves up for election. Maybe change will evolve them.

This pretty much sums up why I contribute also.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

Pretty much this, not sure what people actually want them to do, release a statement every other day making accusations and demands, no doubt there is a hell of a lot going on in the background that we never hear about?

Well they are supposed to be looking at the books. Need an update on that.

[Mooneyraker]

I just had a quick look, and as far I can tell, that last News on the Trust STFC site about the CG was April.  Now, I'm not privy to the stuff going on locally and may have missed other publications, but that seems a bit poor.

I do think the Trust remains the right vehicle though.  I respect the fact they are volunteers - I did suggest a while back that they should have hired someone, a consultant or even full time person, to lead the project on their behalf.  They are a not for profit, doesn't mean everything has to be volunteer led.

This is what I mean. What are they doing? It's fine saying they are volunteers but if 1500 people are paying even only an average of a couple of quid a month, its enough that the answer should be "something."

[STFC_Manc]

This is what I mean. What are they doing? It's fine saying they are volunteers but if 1500 people are paying even only an average of a couple of quid a month, its enough that the answer should be "something."

You could volunteer to help them, given your intense interest in all of this.