New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Tails]

Remember this is a football club that has regular home attendance of 9000 plus in league 2.

Agree with a lot of your post but just a point here that when you consider ST holders who have already paid, subsidised and free tickets plus concessions... That isn't 9000 fans paying full price.

Also that is starting to drop sub 9 a bit more frequently. I'm sure that'll go back up if our recent on pitch success continues.

It would be nice if a rich dude took a punt on us but that does come with huge risk. If Vince gets bored of FGR, they're screwed.

[Batch]

Clem is funding any deficit, or he would lose all his investment? 

is he? at one point he said he will, then at another he said he didn't really want to put more money in.

I get your point, I don't know how deep good pockets are though

The number has been quoted for quite a while and I'm sure is a worse case,

I though the words used were "at least" (500k-1m)

very few clubs are 'viable' in league two or any league unfortunately.
.

indeed. however the stated aim is day to day breakeven with (I guess) extraordinary events being 'made up'.

I guess there's nothing as fans were can do even if we knew. so do we need to know?

if Clem is more fluid than it looks and is able to support the club then it's a non issue anyway.

[Legends-Lounge]

Agree with a lot of your post but just a point here that when you consider ST holders who have already paid, subsidised and free tickets plus concessions... That isn't 9000 fans paying full price.

Also that is starting to drop sub 9 a bit more frequently. I'm sure that'll go back up if our recent on pitch success continues.

It would be nice if a rich dude took a punt on us but that does come with huge risk. If Vince gets bored of FGR, they're screwed.

 If Vince gets bored of FGR, they're screwed.

Same goes for a lot of clubs. He’s using it for publicity purposes and no doubt some form of offset against ecotricity profits.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

I’ve checked out of the ownership issue debates but these fan arguments of “he’s the devil” Vs “he’s our lord and saviour that cannot be questioned” are very reminiscent of the same early Power debates. You’d have hoped as a fan base we’d have learnt something from that and instead realised that the reality is usually at least somewhere in the middle.

Regarding Power, it wasn't. One side was right and one was wrong.

I tend to think Satan himself may have left us in a better position.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

And 80%+ of the fanbase probably isn't even paying any attention.

Most of the ones on Facebook in the Clem can do no wrong camp (particularly that Ian chap) demonstrate time and time again they have no earthly clue what anyone is going on about, yet still see fit to call people 'so called supporters' and tell everyone we should back and trust Clem wholeheartedly anyway.

Cretins.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

Yeah, sorry, I’m not lawyering you! Just making the point that we are fresh off the back of Jed and Power, both of whom would have gladly seen the club wiped from the map.

I actually like Clem, which I could not say of those arseholes.

I’m undecided about his intentions. I suspect he simply can’t shake off the hangers on for reasons as yet unclear that we could speculate about, and is basically rather naive, not a details guy and in over his head.

I struggle to buy that though if he is the sole owner. It must be a case of won't rather than can't.

[Robinz]

Tails... I appreciate your comments however Season ticket holders have paid their dues in advance (money in the bank)
Having attended matches at the County ground this season where I purchased  a matchday program, very average Cornish pasty, a beer and 10 pound for a car park. And the 21 pound entry ticket. Could have paid less due to age !!!
So the revenue on the day is definitely not 15 pound per attendee
That said... really enjoyed the football and will visit everytime I am in the UK.
Yes I will be watching today's game at 3am Sunday morning COYRS

[Power to people]

Aren't they pretty much one and the same, albeit I suppose it would avoid Kiely and the lawyer guy being partially liable I suppose.

Yep, but I think I was making the point that it should not be done to the FC to pay back Clem - it should be a personal cheque - but equally we wont know as it would just be rolled into the £x000's that Clem says he has put into the club.

[RobertT]

I raised this point previously.  I reckon Clem is confusing cash and profit/loss.  He is equating the constant need to pay down debt as what he calls making a loss.  He is right on the cash front - he will need to pay money from his own pocket, even if we are at break even, to pay down debt.

Now, there are two ways I can see this - it's tough on him, it does burn his cash reserves.  I feel sorry for him having to pick that up.

But, he purchased the club and when you do that you assume the Balance Sheet as well as the P&L.  He said he had enough to cover 7m, so he has not even reached that number yet.  If he was telling us the truth, he could have paid it all down on day one.  It's another case of bullshit.  He clearly did not have that money to hand, but thought he could spread it (which is actually a sensible thing to do, I'm not knocking that).  But doing so means you accept you will likely be paying out of pocket for a few years because there is no way the club makes a profit sufficient to give cash reserves to do so.

So, Clem is either economical with the truth, or a bit shit a running a football club (or somewhere in-between them).

[Posh Red]

We were £7.4m in debt, and thats now down to £600k.

On the basis that we (like pretty much all football clubs) are not generally making profits where do we think the £6.8m came from?

Then add on top the stadium maintenance that had been neglected by our mate Lee for the last few years

[RobertT]

We were £7.4m in debt, and thats now down to £600k.

On the basis that we (like pretty much all football clubs) are not generally making profits where do we think the £6.8m came from?

Then add on top the stadium maintenance that had been neglected by our mate Lee for the last few years

But that is my point - it was known, and it is not impacting the ability of the club to make a profit or loss.  Debt being paid down is not an Operating Loss - we already made the loss in past years which is why we have so much debt.  He should have known that when he purchased the club - so I think he is confusing his debt payments as a loss.  If we are break even, he still has to dip his hand in his pocket to pay off the "bad" debt.  There is no surplus.

He keeps saying losing a million a year - more likely, debt repayments are about that on top of the Operating position.  We made a profit in Year One, it's possible we made a small loss in Year two given some of the likely cost increases on the playing/management side.

[Posh Red]

But, he purchased the club and when you do that you assume the Balance Sheet as well as the P&L.  He said he had enough to cover 7m, so he has not even reached that number yet.  If he was telling us the truth, he could have paid it all down on day one.  It's another case of bullshit. 

He’s paid off £6.8m of debt, as well as picking up other costs. Would suggest that he’s got “near” the £7m number.

To be fair to him, I’ve heard that Power hadn’t produced any accurate accounts for some time so the actual debt position wasn’t obvious. In normal circumstances I’m sure anyone buying the club would have wanted to see a more accurate financial picture, however as we all know the takeover was all very last minute. I guess he could (and probably should) have walked away once he got an accurate picture, but fuck knows where we’d have been now if he did.

As I mentioned earlier we are probably taking about £2m a year more in gate receipts than FGR, yet Vince is having to put in £4m a year to cover the costs, so surely it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that we are losing £500k (without having to pay historic debt)

[RobertT]

We already know our position on P&L - we have an audited set of accounts from Clem, we made a profit.

It's not unlikely that we made a loss second season, but that is not "losing a million a year".

He may well have put what he said he had into the club, but that was the expectation when he purchased the club - he said he could cover 7m.  I just think he has confused some of that with P&L, it has nothing to do with P&L now.  It is not an operating loss now, it's not even a hit to EBITDA.

[Posh Red]

We already know our position on P&L - we have an audited set of accounts from Clem, we made a profit.

We do now, but what was the position 3 years ago when Power was forced to sell?


I’m assuming like any business they project expected income & expenditure for the year/season.

Presumably based on their projections they expect to lose that amount this year/season, hopefully based on losing in the first round of the cup so that progress & a Man City type draw or a playoff final or better still promotion would mean we have a better financial result.

[STFC_Manc]

We already know our position on P&L - we have an audited set of accounts from Clem, we made a profit.

It's not unlikely that we made a loss second season, but that is not "losing a million a year".

He may well have put what he said he had into the club, but that was the expectation when he purchased the club - he said he could cover 7m.  I just think he has confused some of that with P&L, it has nothing to do with P&L now.  It is not an operating loss now, it's not even a hit to EBITDA.

I think you are kind of missing the mark with the profit we made that year and then the likely loss.  We had a great cup run and we had a salary cap In place, which kept player wages artificial lower than normal and I'm sure we had a lot more stadium maintenance to do, as we did this year. We could easily be losing between £0.5-£1m a year.

We will have to wait and see for the next audited accounts.