New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[Mooneyraker]

“At least”. I could have worded that better to be honest but it’s a Friday night

Yeah, sorry, I’m not lawyering you! Just making the point that we are fresh off the back of Jed and Power, both of whom would have gladly seen the club wiped from the map.

I actually like Clem, which I could not say of those arseholes.

I’m undecided about his intentions. I suspect he simply can’t shake off the hangers on for reasons as yet unclear that we could speculate about, and is basically rather naive, not a details guy and in over his head.

[Mooneyraker]

You see, it could be.  Just very far to one side.  If we follow the advice of some, and ignore the behind the scenes stuff because it's not our club and we can't change anything, then Power managed a Div 3 Play Off Final, a further Div 3 Play Off finish and a L2 Championship alongside a record transfer fee received (I'm ignoring the two relegations to the bottom Division for the sake of making a stupid point).

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Lee Power would be a cracking lower league salaried Director of Football.

When it comes to business, he’s got the fecal touch, by design, and shouldn’t be allowed near another one again.

[UTR]

My opinion on it at this stage is that Clem has the right intentions but is doing a lot of things very wrong and bringing a lot of avoidable heat on himself.

But since the last ownership, I’ve been extremely guarded and sceptical of the new owners and I think fans are well within their rights to be. My point was more that I don’t like how fans who are justifiably sceptical of things are shut down so quickly by other fans without a reasonable response just as much as I don’t like how some fans are clearly making up shit to throw at Clem (the foundation park stuff etc).

At the end of the day, we’ve just come out of the last ownership where people were calling them out extremely early (way before they actually left) and got shut down by other fans instantly without much reasonable reverse argument and a lot of those early shouts ended up having some truth. You’d have hoped we’d have learnt from that. So I don’t blame anyone for asking questions.

I’ve seen very few debates on this that are a reasonable middle on both sides, it’s always at least one side is in the “he’s the devil” or the “he’s our saviour that can do no wrong” camp and it’s just mind numbing to read because there’s never going to to be a reasonable debate there when one half is like that.

[Batch]

What is clear is that there isn't really a coherent plan in play and it seems evident he is far removed from any details or the operation.  .

see putting aside the legit/stooge for shysters stuff, this is the most concerning.

one minute he's accepting that football clubs lost money, the next he sort of says he doesn't want to put more money in...

if we are losing 500k-1m* then I'm still none the wiser if he's intending to put the cash in it rack up the debts while flailing around.

* if..

not that there's is a thing we can do

[STFC_Manc]

see putting aside the legit/stooge for shysters stuff, this is the most concerning.

one minute he's accepting that football clubs lost money, the next he sort of says he doesn't want to put more money in...

if we are losing 500k-1m* then I'm still none the wiser if he's intending to put the cash in it rack up the debts while flailing around.

* if..

not that there's is a thing we can do

You seem a bit fixated on the £500k-£1m losses, while it's far from ideal.  It's part of being a league 2 team, in fact it's probably better than most.

The potential loss will be if we don't sell any players, no cup runs, on a certain level of attendance. If any of them come off, then it will start to eat into the loss.

[RobertT]

I think Batch is saying the worry is more the lack of clarity over what it means.  Is it that we accept such a loss and run with it or is Clem saying we have to make cuts, still?  The number hasn't changed either, so have previous Operational cost savings been matched by a loss in Revenue?

It's the detail and the implication that is missing.

[Robinz]

I still have an issue where CM seems still confused whether monies that he needed to find to clear debentures are causing the loses.
My understanding is these payments are clearly part of the purchase of the club. This is a capital purchase
If our income has risen with paying punters through the gate, many more sponsors and continued sales of players (Wakelyn even Ellis to Colchester and several to Creepies) and then a fee for a previous manager. (Lindsay). Profits from F and B on matchdays.
Our expenses have dropped with less ground rent for the County ground. Less players and their wages. No obvious repairs and maintenance at the ground.
I might be missing something but sorry to say based on these facts... something is not right.
Also the statement from the owner that no interest is being charged on money he has introduced.

This club must be in a far better financial position than 90% of all teams in this division.

[@MacPhlea]

Has it been confirmed that these are  operating losses? Because, if they are then we all need to be concerned as it would indicate the club is not viable even after al the cost savings.

The other alternative is that these losses are as a result of ‘writing off’ things from previous accounting years that are incorrectly sat on the ledger as assets that simply don’t exist… which seems to me to be more likely and understandable when it’s difficult to put a figure on something when thing keep being uncovered.

[STFC_Manc]

I think Batch is saying the worry is more the lack of clarity over what it means.  Is it that we accept such a loss and run with it or is Clem saying we have to make cuts, still?  The number hasn't changed either, so have previous Operational cost savings been matched by a loss in Revenue?

It's the detail and the implication that is missing.

Clem is funding any deficit, or he would lose all his investment? 

The number has been quoted for quite a while and I'm sure is a worse case, very few clubs are 'viable' in league two or any league unfortunately.

A lot of work has been carried out on the stadium this summer, which isn't going to help, I doubt it would all be capital costs.

[STFC_Manc]

I still have an issue where CM seems still confused whether monies that he needed to find to clear debentures are causing the loses.
My understanding is these payments are clearly part of the purchase of the club. This is a capital purchase
If our income has risen with paying punters through the gate, many more sponsors and continued sales of players (Wakelyn even Ellis to Colchester and several to Creepies) and then a fee for a previous manager. (Lindsay). Profits from F and B on matchdays.
Our expenses have dropped with less ground rent for the County ground. Less players and their wages. No obvious repairs and maintenance at the ground.
I might be missing something but sorry to say based on these facts... something is not right.
Also the statement from the owner that no interest is being charged on money he has introduced.

This club must be in a far better financial position than 90% of all teams in this division.

I think you are confused here, the £0.5m-£1.0m loss can't be caused by the £2.95m debenture and Clem hasn't said that?

You are making a lot of assumptions here, we have sacked managers (we are paying them until October?), Significant spending on the stadium, SL compensation was last year, you have no idea what the player budget is... I could go on.

[Robinz]

Agreed... I have no idea what the player budget is. Supposedly We are 4 players lite.

3.0k per week per player =600k per year.

Less rent to be paid on the County ground = 0000.00 per annum.

Skeleton commercial staffing.

Remember this is a football club that has regular home attendance of 9000 plus in league 2.

Not Cheltenham 3.5k FGR with 3k and Barrow with similar.

The potential here is simply huge

[Posh Red]

To put the loss in perspective, Dale Vince is reportedly putting in £4m a year to keep FGR going.

On the basis that we get about 6,000 more fans on a home game than them, at an average of £15 per ticket (which was more than was reported in the AB), that equates to us being £2m a year worse off.

So shows how we could be losing the sums mentioned

[Batch]

to put it into perspective, Dale Vince can afford it!

But points taken.

[Batch]

I think Batch is saying the worry is more the lack of clarity over what it means.  Is it that we accept such a loss and run with it or is Clem saying we have to make cuts, still?  The number hasn't changed either, so have previous Operational cost savings been matched by a loss in Revenue?

It's the detail and the implication that is missing.

that's exactly it. I've no idea what the costs are, so I'm not saying 'where's the money going ' .

I'm simply saying

1. can Clem afford to cover it. if not then what.

2. I know inflation and maintenance has been a shit, but have we really made no progress on the deficit. I'm hoping one off costs like playing Morris off over time, and getting the generator in have inflated the true picture

edit: @see mcfleas post. that's it exactly.

I did ask for clarification on the Clem call, but it got skipped (nothing untoward there I don't think, just Vic struggling to keep up with questions)

[Posh Red]

to put it into perspective, Dale Vince can afford it!

But points taken.

My point was trying to show to those asking how we can be losing money on 9000 crowds, when FGR are only getting 3000 how it is explainable.

Clearly Clem isn’t in that category