Mooneyraker
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« Reply #6345 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:16:13 » |
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AB response suggests Clem:
- wasn't correctly informed of the debenture
- was told they wouldn't be cashed in "any time soon"
Clem was an investor in the club so at this point and was presumably sending in an accountant to look at the books before finalising buying the club and associated debt.
I'm not sure I'd be so trusting of Power
Then I would ask what the reasoning was for the article I posted, spinning this as straight good news? Why not explain exactly what happened and how it is for the good of the club? And that the debenture was owned by Power/Curran. They've named Andrew Black. Why not name them? |
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Mooneyraker
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« Reply #6346 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:18:19 » |
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As per my post earlier, I suspect the simple (and less salacious) answer is that Clem took over at short notice with a short window to get it done, its obvious that the due diligence was either lacking or completely absent, and if he had asked to see the books in detail the window would have shut.
The underlying in all this is the extent to which wealthy people often seem prepared to take a flyer on things with little security, see also Standing and Power and I suggest why Kiely asked for security when he loaned cash to Clem (not saying that Clem would necessarily be dodgy, but seeing the chaos between Standing and Power would no doubt have focussed his mind).
Wasn't Clem/Axis initially bought in by Power with the stadium redevelopment in mind? He was in the building for several years before this. He didn't come in on the last train before the takeover. When he initially invested he should have been aware of this debenture. |
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horlock07
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« Reply #6347 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:19:54 » |
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Then I would ask what the reasoning was for the article I posted, spinning this as straight good news?
Why not explain exactly what happened and how it is for the good of the club? And that the debenture was owned by Power/Curran. They've named Andrew Black. Why not name them?
I hate to break it to you, but businesses often spin stories to be positive... |
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Leggett
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« Reply #6348 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:20:56 » |
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I'm not sure I'd be so trusting of Power
Clem climbed into bed with him in the first place, got burned trying to get what was promised to him and still went ahead with more than a touch of naivety? Surely a successful businessman can't be that green?! |
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Fuck you Leggett, fuck you.
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Mooneyraker
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« Reply #6349 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:21:56 » |
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I hate to break it to you, but businesses often spin stories to be positive...
Sure, even #OpenAndTransparent ones. But would paying Power/Curran off not be seen as a positive? Why not stick them in there. |
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« Last Edit: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:25:12 by Mooneyraker »
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Bennett
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« Reply #6350 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:24:27 » |
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As per my post earlier, I suspect the simple (and less salacious) answer is that Clem took over at short notice with a short window to get it done, its obvious that the due diligence was either lacking or completely absent, and if he had asked to see the books in detail the window would have shut.
The underlying in all this is the extent to which wealthy people often seem prepared to take a flyer on things with little security, see also Standing and Power and I suggest why Kiely asked for security when he loaned cash to Clem (not saying that Clem would necessarily be dodgy, but seeing the chaos between Standing and Power would no doubt have focussed his mind).
Clem took over sept 21, the debentures were called in "in and around September 2022". From a bit of googling it appears debentures are meant to appear on CH under charges. Things could be the less salacious variety, but they don't point towards good business practice IMO |
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This is the water.
And this is the well.
Drink full and descend.
The horse is the white of the eyes and dark within.
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Mooneyraker
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« Reply #6352 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:37:49 » |
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There you go. 2017. "Clem had three days to find the money." Doesn't sit right. |
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skiptotheLouMacari
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« Reply #6353 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:42:00 » |
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The money is most likely going players wages.
Thought that would be obvious.
Yep that's understandable wages is going to be high, more how can we have made a profit albeit small to now ne losing between £500-£1m a year. |
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey
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« Reply #6354 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 09:54:16 » |
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Yep that's understandable wages is going to be high, more how can we have made a profit albeit small to now ne losing between £500-£1m a year.
I think the implication is the year we made £150,000 was down to one-off events like the Man City receipts. Of course, things like the income from McKirdy, Lindsey, Gladwin, Wakeling plus other bits and bobs should also be offsetting the predictive loss. |
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Quagmire
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« Reply #6355 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 10:04:08 » |
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Whatever the club/Clem paid towards the debenture would affect that too though, wouldn’t it?
So if we were expecting a £500K profit for that financial year, but Clem has used £1m towards the debenture, you could see why we’d make a loss.
Or am I wrong?
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Nemo
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« Reply #6356 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 10:11:15 » |
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Only if the debenture money was paid through the club, which the suggestion is that it was not.
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ThreeDrawsMentality
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« Reply #6357 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 10:37:29 » |
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I note that the TSTBL are moaning that some fans are already 'moaning' ahead of tonight's phone-in. From a bit of digging and personally, I haven't come across much moaning. Mainly people just being forensic with what was stated in previous statements Vs what the latest statements say. Doesn't bode well ahead of them fielding questions tonight if they've already categorised being forensic as 'moaning'.
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@MacPhlea
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« Reply #6358 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 10:37:50 » |
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Can we try to look at this from a different angle - can we debate what kind of shithole would this club be in if Clem hadn't taken over?
I personally think we'd be without a club or at best in the National League
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« Last Edit: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 10:41:15 by @MacPhlea »
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Mooneyraker
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« Reply #6359 on: Wednesday, September 20, 2023, 10:44:40 » |
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Can we try to look at this from a different angle - can we debate what kind of shithole would this club be in if Clem hadn't taken over?
Can we debate what kind of shithole would this club be in if Jed hadn't taken over? Can we debate what kind of shithole would this club be in if Power hadn't taken over? We will never know is the short answer. Some people on here have said they'd have preferred to go full phoenix club to clear the decks which I understand, even if I don't agree with it. I think some people are just tired of murky ownership and chucking their money behind false promises after a decade of this. That said, it is possible to say I'm glad Clem took on the club when he did but I'm appalled at the way he has run it since. |
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