Let's Get Political!

[pauld]

Meanwhile, nothing quite tells the tale of the triumphalism turned to tails between legs shuffling about and overall complete waste of money of this government's Brexit policies than the pile of gloating 50p coins that are now having to be melted down because "Dead In a Ditch" Johnson bottled it (again)

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-commemorative-leaving-coins-to-be-destroyed-after-delay-11847958

[pauld]

It's what you get if it's what you vote for... whoever you try and blame, the country has in recent years moved further to the right in terms of attitudes

I think it's moved further to the extremes, both left and right, the centre seems to have broken down.

[Reg Smeeton]

I think it's moved further to the extremes, both left and right, the centre seems to have broken down.

I'll say it again.... there was nothing in the 17 Labour manifesto, that would look out of place in European Social Democracy that's the most recent thing we have to go on.

So it included a commitment to Trident.... but renationalise Royal Mail, and railways and perhaps some utilities. Scrap tuition fees, recruit 10,000 coppers and build a million homes while planting a million trees.

[pauld]

I'll say it again.... there was nothing in the 17 Labour manifesto, that would look out of place in European Social Democracy that's the most recent thing we have to go on

I didn't say anything about the Labour manifesto. I was responding to your point that the country had shifted to the right, by which I assumed you meant people in the country, and I think more people have moved *toward* the extremes of both left and right i.e. the country has become more polarised. I don't think that's an especially controversial point and it has little to do with the contents of Labour's last manifesto.

[Reg Smeeton]

I didn't say anything about the Labour manifesto. I was responding to your point that the country had shifted to the right, by which I assumed you meant people in the country, and I think more people have moved *toward* the extremes of both left and right i.e. the country has become more polarised. I don't think that's an especially controversial point and it has little to do with the contents of Labour's last manifesto.

Fair enough...  it's an interesting point.  There have always been outliers on the left and right, perhaps a more useful dichotomy would be collectivism v individualism.  Collectivism has eroded, and individualism rules.

[Nemo]

Labour (front bench at least) backing the election for early December, so it's on.

Ho ho oh god why this is going to be awful

[horlock07]

Labour (front bench at least) backing the election for early December, so it's on.

Ho ho oh god why this is going to be awful

https://twitter.com/DavidB45212563/status/1189133288050450432

[tans]

That prick Cameron has a lot to answer for. Thats all saying.

[Legends-Lounge]

  

[horlock07]

I think everyone is jumping the gun a little, the motion is subject to potential amendment this afternoon with votes for under 16's and those from the EU with settled status being on the table. Both of these would seriously affect the Tories chances so I can still see them pulling it.

[Legends-Lounge]

I wouldn’t say jumping the gun, just thankful something is moving, all be it at a glacial pace. As I said a while ago, still a long way to go.

[horlock07]

Don't worry it looks to be turning into a Labour shambles already.

We appear to have Labour MP's briefing that the LD's are seeking to block the amendments for U16's and settled EU which could scupper Labour agreement, this is clearly bollocks as the LD's have been pushing for such a measure for years, then on the other hand we have Labour MP's coming out suggesting that if these things do not pass its not  a deal breaker anyway.

Now we have certain MP's suggesting they are going to defy the whip and possibly resign if the front bench supports Johnson.

[pauld]

We appear to have Labour MP's briefing that the LD's are seeking to block the amendments for U16's and settled EU which could scupper Labour agreement, this is clearly bollocks as the LD's have been pushing for such a measure for years

In the same way they'd been pushing for a 2nd referendum for years before Jo Swinson ditched it for straight revoke? Or the way they firmly opposed tuition fees? Lib Dems just as capable of indecision, bollocks and all the rest as either of the other two parties

[RobertT]

I didn't say anything about the Labour manifesto. I was responding to your point that the country had shifted to the right, by which I assumed you meant people in the country, and I think more people have moved *toward* the extremes of both left and right i.e. the country has become more polarised. I don't think that's an especially controversial point and it has little to do with the contents of Labour's last manifesto.

I'm not so sure the country has moved, but what certainly has happened, in the age of twitter et al, is the magnification of the extreme views.  Now, that may have shifted some people as well, but just like racism, we are fools to believe much changes quickly, it's more that things go unnoticed.

In terms of Labour, you only have to look at the disdain Blair receives by people who gladly back Corbyn (even ignoring his Iraq war crap).  Blair was precisely what Labour needed, they'd now rather burn him at the stake for heresy and believe a more left wing protest organiser is the right choice.   Reg, I think you mentioned about the need for people to vote on their principles, hence Corbyn being a good choice (or words to that effect), I'd argue he does precisely what Paul is describing - he narrows the choice down to a smaller base.  He gets plenty of followers with passion, but you cannot win an election without recognising the fact a majority do not fully support your policies and a degree of comprimise is needed.  Oh for some sort of PR.

[horlock07]

In the same way they'd been pushing for a 2nd referendum for years before Jo Swinson ditched it for straight revoke? Or the way they firmly opposed tuition fees? Lib Dems just as capable of indecision, bollocks and all the rest as either of the other two parties

Possibly so, but less adept at simultaneously briefing the press with polar differing points of view!