Let's Get Political!

[dogs]

What I find hard to understand is why the EU would contemplate letting us remain on the current terms as we hold now anyhow. Appears pretty bloody arrogant if you ask me.

Every gaping wound in society has been more or less opened up and we've shown exactly who, what and where we current exist as a nation.

Remain should be an option, but to join Schengen, commit to joining the Euro and no rebate.

[Batch]

What I find hard to understand is why the EU would contemplate letting us remain on the current terms as we hold now anyhow. Appears pretty bloody arrogant if you ask me.

They don't have a choice in the matter

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/revoking-article-50-after-the-ecjs-ruling/

The ECJ also confirmed that, should the UK remain owing to such a revocation, it would be ‘under terms that are unchanged’ (paras 74, 75). This means that the UK could remain in the EU without making any concessions for doing so.

[horlock07]

May trying to head off Wednesday "take o deal off the table" vote by promising a similar vote should her vote not go through in March 12th

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47373996

Can kicking has to stop Parliament, in the words of the green clever one - do or do not.

And Corbyn only supports 2nd ref on basis of Mays deal passing, so that's unlikely to happen....



As for can kicking it can only really last until 1st July http://politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/02/21/the-real-brexit-cliff-edge-is-not-on-march-29th-it-s-july-1s

Watching May in the house I can only conclude that she has serious mental problems or is genuinely a bit evil!

[horlock07]

Further to the above....

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/02/26/may-s-article-50-extension-is-a-trick-to-take-us-to-the-real

[horlock07]

So another day in paradise has passed. Thing is, when will MP's bloody well learn.... The pattern is so predictable.

1) MPs decide ‘enough is enough’ and threaten to do something
2) May ‘concedes’ just enough to persuade them it’s OK
3) The MPs drop their threat/withdraw their bill
4) May breaks her promise and doesn’t do what she said she would.
Repeat ad nauseam

Good to see further government impact papers have been obtained, although once again the government did their damnedest to avoid the public and our elected representatives seeing them...  https://twitter.com/37paday/status/1100537973077090304

The thing is, as Mrs May and others keep telling us No Deal is better than a Bad Deal, just how sodding bad is Mrs May's deal?

[Reg Smeeton]

The thing is, as Mrs May and others keep telling us No Deal is better than a Bad Deal, just how sodding bad is Mrs May's deal?

As bizarre as it may seem, at the time of the ref, it was pointed out that there would be a "short/medium term" hit to GDP.

Time scale wasn't really talked about, but people voted for it anyway.  With no deal, we take the hit, but do make the contribution savings, in return for losing a voice. With May's deal we'll take a slightly smaller hit, still pay contributions and also lose the voice.   Brexit was essentially a right wing coup... its true believers don't want some sort of fudge.

[Sir red ken]

As bizarre as it may seem, at the time of the ref, it was pointed out that there would be a "short/medium term" hit to GDP.

Time scale wasn't really talked about, but people voted for it anyway.  With no deal, we take the hit, but do make the contribution savings, in return for losing a voice. With May's deal we'll take a slightly smaller hit, still pay contributions and also lose the voice.   Brexit was essentially a right wing coup... its true believers don't want some sort of fudge.

No one who voted for Brexit wanted a fudge, the option was leave everyting EU and that won.
Its not a right wing coup, many labour voters supported it. Renaming a democratic vote a right wing coup gives no validity to its over throw by hard left and self interest groups. A coup is taking control by a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power, not a referendum. Yes we all know the elite will overthrow the vote but at that point the UK will cease being a democracy. After that you have no say and no voice and in a few years your children's children will make up the front line cannon fodder of the new unified invasion force.

[horlock07]

No one who voted for Brexit wanted a fudge, the option was leave everyting EU and that won.
Its not a right wing coup, many labour voters supported it. Renaming a democratic vote a right wing coup gives no validity to its over throw by hard left and self interest groups. A coup is taking control by a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power, not a referendum. Yes we all know the elite will overthrow the vote but at that point the UK will cease being a democracy. After that you have no say and no voice and in a few years your children's children will make up the front line cannon fodder of the new unified invasion force.

I think the democratic bit was soured a bit when it became clear that there were all maner of discrepancies and funding issues, strange its not been debated on here and generally ignored in the wider media, but this is actually quite funny if it were not so serious...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/present...t-referendum-corruptly-won-but-result-stands/

TL-DR - The courts found that the EU referendum was won based on a corrupt campaign, but the courts can't void the result because the referendum was only advisory, despite Theresa May and all Eexiteers not treating the result as thus.... May's own QC in court admitted that she knows the result is non-binding and corrupt but is ploughing ahead possibly because a) she doesn't like people who don't talk or look like her (not commenting on Eexiteers generally but Mrs May is undoubtedly a xenophobic nutcase, see her previous hits at the Home Office) or b) it will make Mr May very very rich (although obviously he will continue to not pay tax on his earnings, that would be silly) or c) Rees-Mogg was with her in the wheat field and has pictures.

P.S. Could you remind me who the EU are planning to invade, I seem to have missed that bit? 

[Reg Smeeton]

A coup is taking control by a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power, not a referendum.

Subsequent events have shown that the Leave campaign employed illegal methods not only in funding by Putin, but in the illegal use of data obtained by Cambridge Analyical, therefore a coup, not necessarily an old style coup involving generals etc, but a very British Coup.

Your paranoia about EU armies etc is just that.... I used it as an example recently, of how easy it would be for the right wing media to use as scare tactic in a second ref.

[pauld]

It's not a coup in any traditional sense of the word. Nor on the other hand as is becoming increasingly clear was it very democratic in the manner that underhand and illegal methods were used to secure the victory. So probably half way between the two, a coup-lite perhaps?

[Reg Smeeton]

It's not a coup in any traditional sense of the word. Nor on the other hand as is becoming increasingly clear was it very democratic in the manner that underhand and illegal methods were used to secure the victory. So probably half way between the two, a coup-lite perhaps?

More of coup than a putsch.... although the Beer Hall Putsch of 1923, is probably something Brexiteers would hope revisit as the Wetherspoon's Putsch of 2019, if Brexit is delayed by a few weeks.

[pauld]

More of coup than a putsch.... although the Beer Hall Putsch of 1923, is probably something Brexiteers would hope revisit as the Wetherspoon's Putsch of 2019, if Brexit is delayed by a few weeks.

Maybe Teresa's trying for one last putsch to get it over the line?

[Legends-Lounge]

£16,700 Tsk, Tsk.

[Ardiles]

Corbyn now building a consensus across parliament for a soft Brexit, in anticipation of May's deal being voted down again next week.  Knowing this, I think there has to be a very strong chance that the ERG faction in the Tory party caves in and ends up voting for the deal that they've campaigned against for so long.  It's a big gamble for them, relying on a No Deal outcome - that just about everyone else will mobilise against - going through.

[Reg Smeeton]

Corbyn now building a consensus across parliament for a soft Brexit, in anticipation of May's deal being voted down again next week.  Knowing this, I think there has to be a very strong chance that the ERG faction in the Tory party caves in and ends up voting for the deal that they've campaigned against for so long.  It's a big gamble for them, relying on a No Deal outcome - that just about everyone else will mobilise against - going through.

Well it looks like Tuesday vote, is going to point out the end game here... fuck knows, how things will pan out.  I think it is important though that people realise, this will rumble on for years.  We've had the easy bit up until now.... negotiating a new deal with the EU and other countries from a position of weakness, is going to cause major problems.