Let's Get Political!

[Sir red ken]

The double standards here are astonishing.

• Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Redwood etc. = men of the people!  A luta continua!
• Anyone supporting close co-operation with their nearest neighbours = The Liberal Elite/self-interest groups

Do you think Phony Blaire,hesseltine,medlesome,cleg,clarke,branson,etc,etc are doing it for anything other than their own enrichment! For fucks sake wake up and smell the coffee.

[Batch]

Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Redwood etc. = men of the people! 

Men of the people of Sloane Square and Mayfair.

[Sir red ken]

Men of the people of Sloane Square and Mayfair.
[/quote
I know Moggy well and he much prefers Bath to Sloane square.

[Batch]

in that case, tell him he's a self serving cunt from me. thanks

[Sir red ken]

in that case, tell him he's a self serving cunt from me. thanks

Corby knows that he's a self serving cunt, never had a job in his life. Infact you'd be hard pressed to find any of them that aren't self serving.

[StfcRusty]

I spent two hours in the company of Rees-Mogg in 2015.  He was taller and thinner than I imagined with particularly lavish nasal hair.  He was distinctly odd in that he seemed anxious/flustered by meeting new people and apparently found it difficult to look you in the eye when he spoke to you.  That said, I also saw how, when he listened to us plebs speak, he could feign interest with the best of them.  I could see how some people could be charmed by him.

[michael]

I may not have been clear. We've been given different worst case scenarios for different options. What I'd like to see is their best case scenario for no deal as well as what they think the likeliest outcome of no deal will be. That would enable us to more accurately assess the worst case scenario rather than that being the one quoted. The problem is that this worst case scenario will be treated with scorn and an update on project fear. Sadly, I've got a stats background and want to compare.

We've already had the best case "No Deal" outcome: By paying no money to the EU we can instead pay an extra £350 million per week into the NHS. Not sure who came up with that one but it sounds amazing to me!!

[Barry Scott]

That said, I also saw how, when he listened to us plebs speak, he could feign interest with the best of them.  I could see how some people could be charmed by him.

Isn’t being a silver-tongued-charlatan a prerequisite for being a politician?

[StfcRusty]

Isn’t being a silver-tongued-charlatan a prerequisite for being a politician?

Absolutely. I’ve met quite a few MPs through work. To a greater or lesser extent, most of them can be quite charming. If you’ve ever seen Veep, Selena Meyer shows this characteristic whilst absolutely loathing most of the proles she meets. I suspect the reality is very similar

[dogs]

I've met Mogg via Justin Tomlinson. He appears to be a good bloke but then obviously, as above, what else is he going to be like? I will always use the motto of 'don't trust anybody'. Let alone politicians.

My personal take on the likes of Mogg, Farage and even Corbyn, is that there are dark undertones to their policies and beliefs. Obviously as a peon you just accept it and vote for the lesser evil.

[Pax Romana]

The double standards here are astonishing.

• Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Redwood etc. = men of the people!  A luta continua!
• Anyone supporting close co-operation with their nearest neighbours = The Liberal Elite/self-interest groups

Problem is that you are observing pretty much exactly the same double standards. 

You make absurd ad hominen attacks on people you don't like; all politicians seek to appeal to large swathes of the electorate and by those standards certainly Rees Mogg and probably Redmond make far less claim to be a man of the people than virtually any other British politician. 

You then make an equally absurd generalisation implying that their opponents have a monopoly on wanting to co-operate with their neighbours.  Virtually everyone wants to co-operate with Europe, just with differing views as to how that is best achieved in Britain's long term interests.

Maybe I'm naïve but I think that most people hold the position that they do on our EU membership in the genuine belief that that viewpoint is best for Britain.  I think that it is a big mistake to leave the EU but I don't believe that everyone who does think so is a racist, xenophobic, selfish upper class twit who hates the people of this country.

[Ardiles]

You really are stretching things a little in attempting to equate the desire for close co-operation with our nearest neighbours of politicians advocating a hard Brexit (which, by definition, involves minimal cooperation with our nearest neighbours) with the desire of those wishing to remain in the EU for close cooperation with our nearest neighbours.  So actually...I do think you are being a little naive.  (Sorry.)

[RedRag]

The race and xenophobia card was used to exploit grievances unrelated to the EU.

There were genuine grievances relating to dwindling access to public services, especially the NHS and Housing.  Immigration from the rest of the world possibly affected this .  

EU27 migration put the Government in a far better position to fund public services.  Average contributions per head to the Exchequer for 2016 (you know, the "magic money tree") were as follows:

EU 27 migrants:                             PLUS 2,000 GBP
Rest of the World migrants:             MINUS 800 GBP
Native Brits                                    MINUS 100 GBP.  

Before even taking into account the doctors and nurses and carers, EU Migrants were the only group funding public services.  We have full employment and the EU Migrants came to work.  Thank you, EU 27

Most deny having been misled etc, some more humble admit serious shortcomings.  IMO, perfectly informed people spun and exploited core resentment over services and their use by migrants to be about migration in general to include EU migration.  

Not everyone will have gone for the refined "control" argument devoid of the migrant queue-jumper resentment emotion.  

Unless there is something uniquely non-racist/xenophobic about the UK, it is naïve to think that did not play a part.  Upon their deceit, some leavers like Farage now trumpet "the Will of the People".  Perhaps but look at a small but crucial part of that majority.  Not in my name, Nige.

[Ardiles]

...but I think that most people hold the position that they do on our EU membership in the genuine belief that that viewpoint is best for Britain.

And on this point, you are clearly more trusting than I am.  It's my firm belief that the right wing of the Tory party is in favour of placing as much distance between the UK and the EU as it can so that it can strip away employment rights and consumer protections in an (as near as possible) unfettered free market.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.  In such a scenario, the wealthy would become wealthier and those who rely most on those protections - generally those at the lower end of the income scale - would pay most.  It would widen inequality.

So I don't think they are doing what would be 'best for Britain' at all, and I don't think that they themselves believe that either.  I appreciate that these views will not be shared by everyone - but I'm not prepared to go down the road of giving equivalence to the motives of everyone in this debate.  Some have malign intentions, and that needs to be confronted.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Got to say, those Frogs know how to protest.

Back to Brexit, some Professor of Economics Patrick Minford, has come up with figures stating a no deal Brexit would cost the EU far more than the UK.

‘BRITAIN would benefit from “some £651billion in all” if Theresa May was to walk away from the negotiating table and quit the European Union with no deal – handing Brussels devastating financial loses, according to a leading economist.’

Is there enough egg to go round when this damn thing finally ends?