Let's Get Political!

[AldbourneRed]

I might be wrong usually am, but wasn't it the UK that introduced minimum wage? Also read somewhere that EU directive is 4 months maternity leave but we allow 12, (again could be I'll informed).
Personally I wish both sides would be open and rather than pick holes in the other's manifest just concentrate on their own and prove they are correct. The trouble is politicians couldn't lie straight in bed, they can't be trusted.
Currently I sit in the out camp having changed from as said earlier up the thread better the devil you know etc, but we don't elect the European Parliament, they impose unrealistic laws on all of Europe such as
Wonky veg,
Too small Kiwi fruit
Party whistle streamers banned for under 14's
Latex balloons not for use under 8 without supervision.
Those UNelected to sit can earn more than our own Prime Minister who we all blame when things go wrong but he has little or no control over.
Do we really pay £368,000,000 each week to Brussels and what do we get back? Yes a rebate agreed in the 80's but still we pay in more than we receive.
Signs on buildings stating that this was built with EU assistance, yet it was our money that we pumped into the EU to start with.
I think for me the icing on the cake was when I was asked the question, if we were voting to join the EU, no control on laws or borders, no help from the government for struggling industry, pay the EU £368,000,000 each week while making savage cuts to our NHS, Police, Military and local councils. Pensions need reducing as they can't be sustained along with welfare cuts. Would you join it?
I know the grass isn't greener on the other side you never know what will happen, but surely we can't go subsidising the failing Eurozone can we?
My view on the referendum has no political allegiance, it is purely my view and opinion for the future of our children.
£368,000,000 per week would go along way to sorting our debt out, improving border security, reduce hospital waiting times by building more and recruiting more staff. Additional police officers, bolster the military again because they are both struggling, and save our industry when it is struggling.
And don't get me started about the bonuses that twat Junker likes to pay himself!

Surely we do though? All MEPs are elected by some form of proportional representation within their member states, I certainly remember heading down to the polling station for the MEP elections.
Granted as a single member state we only have a certain number of MEPs, but they're all democratically elected.

I'm no expert though, so happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood.

http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps/european_elections/the_voting_system.html

[Don Rogers Sock]

This last few pages have hurt my head. I still don't have a clue how to vote

[horlock07]

This last few pages have hurt my head. I still don't have a clue how to vote

I am awaiting the outcome of the battle of the Thames this afternoon to make a final decision.

[Nemo]

Surely we do though? All MEPs are elected by some form of proportional representation within their member states, I certainly remember heading down to the polling station for the MEP elections.
Granted as a single member state we only have a certain number of MEPs, but they're all democratically elected.

I'm no expert though, so happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood.

http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps/european_elections/the_voting_system.html

I suspect he means the European Comission, which is the bit that proposes laws and isn't directly elected. It is however, appointed by national governments, which is pretty much how the House of Lords works (albeit without any bishops, perhaps that's the problem?)

[Don Rogers Sock]

I am awaiting the outcome of the battle of the Thames this afternoon to make a final decision.

It's all become a joke now, well even more than it already is. No one has mentioned it but seems to me that Cameron has taken a back seat now and letting the others make the argument, if they lose i suppose he can use Corbyns recent efforts as an excuse for why people voted against it.

[horlock07]

It's all become a joke now, well even more than it already is. No one has mentioned it but seems to me that Cameron has taken a back seat now and letting the others make the argument, if they lose i suppose he can use Corbyns recent efforts as an excuse for why people voted against it.

I suspect that someone has finally realised just how much Cameron was pissing people off, as for Corbyn he is stuck between a rock and a hard place (ideologically he doesn't want to be in the EU v. many of the PLP do want to be in) that said his heart doesn't seem to be in it.

[skiptotheLouMacari]

I suspect he means the European Comission, which is the bit that proposes laws and isn't directly elected. It is however, appointed by national governments, which is pretty much how the House of Lords works (albeit without any bishops, perhaps that's the problem?)

I didn't vote for Junker or any of those other shit bags who gang up on Britain.
We are the ginger step kid of Europe, not really liked by any other European country but without us they do not reap the rewards. Europe is mostly run by German's and French as the two biggest power houses in Parliament.
They don't really want us they want our money.
Just had a punt on the thames, very quiet considering this afternoon's duel.

[Nemo]

I didn't vote for Junker or any of those other shit bags who gang up on Britain.
We are the ginger step kid of Europe, not really liked by any other European country but without us they do not reap the rewards. Europe is mostly run by German's and French as the two biggest power houses in Parliament.
They don't really want us they want our money.
Just had a punt on the thames, very quiet considering this afternoon's duel.

You also didn't vote for anyone in the current government, with the possible exception of your local MP if you were lucky enough to pick the right candidate, and they've since been chosen to be part of the government. We don't have particularly direct democracy, at best we vote for local representatives who then appoint the people who make the actual decisions.

The only people who directly voted for David Cameron are around 35,000 people in Witney

[Bogus Dave]

I didn't vote for Junker or any of those other shit bags who gang up on Britain.
We are the ginger step kid of Europe, not really liked by any other European country but without us they do not reap the rewards. Europe is mostly run by German's and French as the two biggest power houses in Parliament.
They don't really want us they want our money.
Just had a punt on the thames, very quiet considering this afternoon's duel.

You voted for the MEPs who appointed junker

[Simon Pieman]

I can't imagine any existing or future government can really make all the best case scenarios happen. Staying in the EU may have advantages and disadvantages but at least we know the position we're in.

[4D]

I saw some video clip last night that claims the EU relocate from Brussels to Strasbourg once a month for 4 days, taking shedloads of staff and paperwork. Costs about 100mill a year. All because something was agreed in the past etc etc.

[Nemo]

I saw some video clip last night that claims the EU relocate from Brussels to Strasbourg once a month for 4 days, taking shedloads of staff and paperwork. Costs about 100mill a year. All because something was agreed in the past etc etc.

Yeah that pretty much happens. I don't think anyone in the remain camp thinks it's not mental, but it's hardly worth canning the whole thing over; whilst 100m is a ridiculous amount of money, it's a drop in the ocean when it comes to national budgets - as has been pointed out, even the £350bn total cost of EU figure (which ignores rebates but lets not get into that argument again) is 0.6% of UK GDP.

So basically the economic argument comes down to "do you think that leaving the EU would cause our GDP to fall by more than 0.6% relative to what would happen if we stay in". If that's a no, then it makes economic sense in your terms to leave (although that ignores social/sovereignty arguments, but those can be discussed separately)

[4D]

Are any EU departments based in the UK? 
I don't like the fact they are pushing the borders out as far as they are, the ridiculous laws that we have to accept. Britain isn't really liked by the rest of Europe so why be part of it? People saying it's better to stick with what we know, nobody knows where Europe is heading but with the mass migration, bail outs and social unrest in mainland Europe it doesn't paint a rosy picture.

[Red Frog]

I always think a good idea when you're confused is to listen to people who are more qualified to judge than you are. In this case virtually everyone with any economic nous is with Remain. Among major figures, only businessmen with a professional stake in less regulation or politicians with a personal agenda seem to be for Brexit.

Don't get this one wrong - the stakes are vastly higher than a general election.

[Reg Smeeton]

Don't get this one wrong - the stakes are vastly higher than a general election.

Actually they're not.  Parliament is sovereign exercising power on behalf of the head of state...in our unwritten constitution it can be argued that a referendum is only advisory. Should it be a very close vote either way, Parliament can finesse the decision as it sees fit.