Let's Get Political!

[horlock07]

Rubbish. That's not a plan to take the country forward in the event that we vote to leave, it's a set of actions to mitigate the impact on all of us of the Brexit group having no such plan.

You might just as well say that the plan to address the escalating violence at Euro 2016 is to have more medical staff on standby. 

That was my point, its more a contingency plan from the national bank should the electorate choose to impose a recession upon itself.

[horlock07]

Does anyone have any confidence that, in the event of a Brexit vote, a Government/Party/ civil service could be provided to carry out the ideals of their campaign competently and fairly?  I don't, which suggests to me 'better the Devil you know'. (More or less).

If we leave we will still have a Tory government until 2020 (unless there is a vote of no confidence which could force an election), however if Cameron loses I strongly suspect he will be gone fairly sharpish and likely be replaced by a new cabinet formed of the Tory leaders of the Brexit campaign (Gove, IDS, Villiers etc likely led by Johnson), plus the Civil service will remain to deliver the governments bidding so nothing will really change on that basis.

However it is important to also remember that if we vote to leave on the 23rd we won't be out of the EU for at least two years after that date as there is a statutory consultation period of two years with the EU should someone choose to leave.

The one interesting thing on the horizon is what will happen with Farage, as it has been his party and campaigning which has essentially led to the departure I cannot see him going quietly, so I suspect he will be seeking a seat at the cabinet table either as an MP (if the Tory electoral expenses scam things goes the full course) or elevated with a peerage (although that would make something of a mockery of the argument that unelected chambers are wrong) or just as a special advisor?

[Reg Smeeton]

If we leave we will still have a Tory government until 2020 (unless there is a vote of no confidence which could force an election), however if Cameron loses I strongly suspect he will be gone fairly sharpish and likely be replaced by a new cabinet formed of the Tory leaders of the Brexit campaign (Gove, IDS, Villiers etc likely led by Johnson), plus the Civil service will remain to deliver the governments bidding so nothing will really change on that basis.

However it is important to also remember that if we vote to leave on the 23rd we won't be out of the EU for at least two years after that date as there is a statutory consultation period of two years with the EU should someone choose to leave.

The one interesting thing on the horizon is what will happen with Farage, as it has been his party and campaigning which has essentially led to the departure I cannot see him going quietly, so I suspect he will be seeking a seat at the cabinet table either as an MP (if the Tory electoral expenses scam things goes the full course) or elected to the peerage (although that would make something of a mockery of the argument that unelected chambers are wrong) or just as a special advisor?

You don't get elected to the peerage. Perhaps Farage could replace Lord Hill of Oareford as our EU Commisioner  at least Farage has offered himself up for election by the British public, unlike Jonathan Hill who has climbed the greasy pole, without ever having that inconvenience.

[horlock07]

You don't get elected to the peerage. Perhaps Farage could replace Lord Hill of Oareford as our EU Commisioner   at least Farage has offered himself up for election by the British public, unlike Jonathan Hill who has climbed the greasy pole, without ever having that inconvenience.

Thanks for pointing that out Reg, clearly I meant elevated didn't I?

Its going to be difficult for many as Farage's right wing influence grows his activities cannot be blamed on Thatcher can they, how will you manage Reg? 

[Reg Smeeton]

Thanks for pointing that out Reg, clearly I meant elevated didn't I?

Its going to be difficult for many as Farage's right wing influence grows his activities cannot be blamed on Thatcher can they, how will you manage Reg?  

Did you?

The Lib Dems, of which you were recently one seem to have a problem with elections and ending up in the Lords....currently 8 in the Commons yet over 100 in the Lords.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/peers

Don't think I've heard a single word from any of these luminaries on the subject of the EU referendum, what do they do all day?

[Tails]

I can't blame them for not shouting and bitching like the rest of them...

[horlock07]

Did you?

The Lib Dems, of which you were recently one seem to have a problem with elections and ending up in the Lords....currently 8 in the Commons yet over 100 in the Lords.

http://www.libdems.org.uk/peers

Don't think I've heard a single word from any of these luminaries on the subject of the EU referendum, what do they do all day?

I imagine like most in the Lords (Tory/Labour/Lib Dem) they sit and eat buffet food, although the Lib Dems do seem to do more than the Labour ones - see the manner in which they tried to block the welfare cuts in 2015 yet Labour did not support them in the Lords?

Are you now saying that the Lords seats should be entirely based upon elected members in the commons, probably a good idea that could have been bought in when the Lib Dems tried to get PR through and yet Labour also opposed that - funny?

So rather than answering the question about the rise of the right, you bring it round to a debate about the Lib Dems - I suppose a return to Thatcherite politics will at least give some currency to that constant position of opposition and mean its not over 20 years out of date anymore?

[Not that Nice If I'm Honest]

What disgusts me most is Labours backing for remain.

I understand why the tories and big business want a constantly renewed source of cheap labour to suppress wages.

And I get why the rich want cheap labour to deliver their basement extensions.

But why does a party that purports to represent the working class want any of that ?

[Nomoreheroes]

What disgusts me most is Labours backing for remain.

I understand why the tories and big business want a constantly renewed source of cheap labour to suppress wages.

And I get why the rich want cheap labour to deliver their basement extensions.

But why does a party that purports to represent the working class want any of that ?

Workers rights, minimum wage, human rights, farming subsidies etc etc I would assume.

[Ells]

Do we actually need the ECHR to ensure we establish human rights in this country? Is that what people are really worried about?

Same with minimum wage. Why do we need the EU for that? Surely the answer is we don't?

[adje]

Do we actually need the ECHR to ensure we establish human rights in this country? Is that what people are really worried about?

Same with minimum wage. Why do we need the EU for that? Surely the answer is we don't?

Sadly,yes

[Wobbly Bob]

Do we actually need the ECHR to ensure we establish human rights in this country? Is that what people are really worried about?

Same with minimum wage. Why do we need the EU for that? Surely the answer is we don't?

I suspect that any alternative human rights charter drawn up here will favour some types of humans over others.
Same with any new employment legislation, which will be biased towards the employer and big business.

[horlock07]

Do we actually need the ECHR to ensure we establish human rights in this country? Is that what people are really worried about?

Same with minimum wage. Why do we need the EU for that? Surely the answer is we don't?

I am not sure what if any thing the ECHR has to do with the EU, are they not separate entities?

In terms of the wider question I think the concern is that if we leave the Tories will have a free reign to do what they like with things like workers rights etc, if we had a credible opposition that would be less of an issue as it could be controlled by parliament, however with the present position where Labour are too busy engaging in a vanity contest whilst waving their appendages around to act in opposition the Tories are doing what they like, the right of the party will be even more confident to essentially do what they like if they believe they have won a mandate of sorts from the country on the EU issue?

Interesting times ahead for all. 

[skiptotheLouMacari]

Do we actually need the ECHR to ensure we establish human rights in this country? Is that what people are really worried about?

Same with minimum wage. Why do we need the EU for that? Surely the answer is we don't?

I might be wrong usually am, but wasn't it the UK that introduced minimum wage? Also read somewhere that EU directive is 4 months maternity leave but we allow 12, (again could be I'll informed).
Personally I wish both sides would be open and rather than pick holes in the other's manifest just concentrate on their own and prove they are correct. The trouble is politicians couldn't lie straight in bed, they can't be trusted.
Currently I sit in the out camp having changed from as said earlier up the thread better the devil you know etc, but we don't elect the European Parliament, they impose unrealistic laws on all of Europe such as
Wonky veg,
Too small Kiwi fruit
Party whistle streamers banned for under 14's
Latex balloons not for use under 8 without supervision.
Those UNelected to sit can earn more than our own Prime Minister who we all blame when things go wrong but he has little or no control over.
Do we really pay £368,000,000 each week to Brussels and what do we get back? Yes a rebate agreed in the 80's but still we pay in more than we receive.
Signs on buildings stating that this was built with EU assistance, yet it was our money that we pumped into the EU to start with.
I think for me the icing on the cake was when I was asked the question, if we were voting to join the EU, no control on laws or borders, no help from the government for struggling industry, pay the EU £368,000,000 each week while making savage cuts to our NHS, Police, Military and local councils. Pensions need reducing as they can't be sustained along with welfare cuts. Would you join it?
I know the grass isn't greener on the other side you never know what will happen, but surely we can't go subsidising the failing Eurozone can we?
My view on the referendum has no political allegiance, it is purely my view and opinion for the future of our children.
£368,000,000 per week would go along way to sorting our debt out, improving border security, reduce hospital waiting times by building more and recruiting more staff. Additional police officers, bolster the military again because they are both struggling, and save our industry when it is struggling.
And don't get me started about the bonuses that twat Junker likes to pay himself!

[suttonred]

A little interesting maybe. My wife works in a large technical college, they did a vote last week, all people of voteable age, staff and students. 60 voted stay against 180 leave. Small snapshot, but pretty one sided.