Let's Get Political!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

When I lived in Ireland they were due to have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. When it became apparent the Irish people would vote against, the referendum was dropped.

This is a direct quote from Giscard d'Estaing:

"Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly" ... "All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way." 

If that's not a reason to reject the EU I don't know what is.

[Summerof69]

And regarding recession, have we not been in a recession and under austerity measures since the bankers slapped 12 inches up us without protection or lube?

And 4 of the major Remain backers, are banks like JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs, which helped cause it in the first place.

[Summerof69]

When I lived in Ireland they were due to have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. When it became apparent the Irish people would vote against, the referendum was dropped.

Well we were promised a referendum on one of the EU treaties about 10 years ago, but when it was rejected by France and Holland, the EU just renamed the treaty, and Gordon Brown signed it anyway, without calling a referendum.

[horlock07]

And regarding recession, have we not been in a recession and under austerity measures since the bankers slapped 12 inches up us without protection or lube?

We haven't been in recession for some time but I think things are fairly precarious, as for austerity that's more of a Tory ideological thing and leaving the EU is unlikely to make the incoming Tory leadership look at things any differently?

[horlock07]

And 4 of the major Remain backers, are banks like JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs, which helped cause it in the first place.

Indeed but as the brexit campaign is being heavily backed by the media barons of the right (Rothermere - Mail, Barclays, Torygraph, Murdoch, Sun/Times, Dirty Desmond - Express) who all hate the idea of more press regulation and all tend to live aboard with companies registered abroad for tax evasion purposes its really six and two threes, Murdoch has previously admitted that the only reason he supports Brexit is because Westminster will do what he tells them but Brussels won't! I am not keen on a country being essentially managed by people who are neither resident nor tax payers here?

[horlock07]

When I lived in Ireland they were due to have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. When it became apparent the Irish people would vote against, the referendum was dropped.

This is a direct quote from Giscard d'Estaing:

"Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly" ... "All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way."

If that's not a reason to reject the EU I don't know what is.

It seemed to be suggested over the weekend that if we vote to leave the two year consultation period could see various further concessions from Europe and thus lead to another referendum in two years time?

[Reg Smeeton]

I was voting out, but am now leaning back to in.

My reasoning goes something like this.....the main reason for the out vote is to try and reduce immigration, which the average punter thinks had gone too far.  The problem with that is 2 fold, firstly non EU immigration has nothing to do with the EU, secondly if we sign up for a Norway Swiss style agreement, you still have free movement.

Therefore people will be voting for something they aren't going to get...

The EU is a basket case, which needs serious reform, if it collapses, it won't be good for us even if we're out, so probably better on balance to stay in and try and affect change that way...

I may change my mind again

[Reg Smeeton]

We haven't been in recession for some time but I think things are fairly precarious, as for austerity that's more of a Tory ideological thing and leaving the EU is unlikely to make the incoming Tory leadership look at things any differently?

TBF it isn't....it's a bankers thing. The ECB imposed plenty of austerity on Greece.

[Saxondale]

I seriously think the whole thing is wrong.  The reasons behind the referendum are nothing to do with Europe.  Its a referendum to appease the right wing of the conservative party.  To fight off UKIP and Farage.  It may be right to discuss the membership and it may be right to look at the way things are being done, but I really don't believe this is the right time to pull out just so the right wing can sort themselves out. 

What planning has been done?  What does the UK out of Europe look like?  I dont know.  Does anyone?  Has anyone got a plan beyond lets get out?  An actual plan for the country that is.  Not a plan for who is going to get high office.

[Pax Romana]

Has anyone got a plan beyond lets get out?  An actual plan for the country that is.  Not a plan for who is going to get high office.

Exactly. 

[Reg Smeeton]

What planning has been done?  What does the UK out of Europe look like?  I dont know.  Does anyone?  Has anyone got a plan beyond lets get out?  An actual plan for the country that is.  Not a plan for who is going to get high office.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/05/bank-of-england-brexit-preparations-uk-banks

[horlock07]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/05/bank-of-england-brexit-preparations-uk-banks

That actually has nothing to do with the Brexit campaign and is just normal financial planning by a national bank, reading that just makes one realise just what a financial shit storm could be unleashed if we depart, response to the Brexiters from the electorate if this comes to bear could be interesting considering what a shit kicking (and quite rightly) the bankers got for fucking the economy, if its our elected members who lead on it this time could create a tide which drops Corbyn into No.10??

[Reg Smeeton]

That actually has nothing to do with the Brexit campaign and is just normal financial planning by a national bank, reading that just makes one realise just what a financial shit storm could be unleashed if we depart, response to the Brexiters from the electorate if this comes to bear could be interesting considering what a shit kicking (and quite rightly) the bankers got for fucking the economy, if its our elected members who lead on it this time could create a tide which drops Corbyn into No.10??

....Saxondale asked " has anyone got a plan beyond let's get out?"  So there's an example of someone with a plan.

[Pax Romana]

....Saxondale asked " has anyone got a plan beyond let's get out?"  So there's an example of someone with a plan.

Rubbish. That's not a plan to take the country forward in the event that we vote to leave, it's a set of actions to mitigate the impact on all of us of the Brexit group having no such plan.

You might just as well say that the plan to address the escalating violence at Euro 2016 is to have more medical staff on standby. 

[normy]

Does anyone have any confidence that, in the event of a Brexit vote, a Government/Party/ civil service could be provided to carry out the ideals of their campaign competently and fairly?  I don't, which suggests to me 'better the Devil you know'. (More or less).