Let's Get Political!

[Reg Smeeton]

Yeah, definitely an opportunity for a Lib Dem revival and they could take their pick of either centre right, centre left or middle ground, as there is likely to be a political void in all of these areas.

I tried to smoke some of our resident LibDemers out a while back, on the subject of the referendum. We all know Lib Dems politicians are pro Europe....it's an even bigger gravy train than the House of Lords. 

It would have been good to hear just how far down the United States of Europe line they'd be prepared to take, in order to keep the train on the tracks. Nobody on the Lib/Dem Remain side has made a case for the UK ceasing to be a country and becoming a region....they used to.

Given Horlock's analysis of the disintegration of "broad church" political parties into smaller entities....it does point to the need for PR.

[horlock07]

At last the voice of reason...

[suttonred]

Ace

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Just out of interest what was the source of that, just doesn't sound correct to me - although I suspect as the majority who go from the UK to Europe are elderly there may be some truth in it!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/britons-claiming-benefits-across-eu-outnumber-immigrants-getting-welfare-uk-1484091

[Summerof69]

Re Europe, maybe the best bet is to go with the bigger picture, we are Europeans at the end of the day, so as mentioned before, might be better to stick with devil you know.

Not if the Euro collapses.... which this guy predicts will happen in the next 3-5 years....and he was one who actually predicted the crash in 2006, unlike the IMF and the OECD...

[Ardiles]

I've been leaning slightly towards Remain for some time, not because of any great love for the EU - which is a shambles - but because the alternative is mostly likely a far more free-market UK where big business is likely to have a bigger say.  The rights of the worker are not going to be top of Gove's or Johnson's priorities in a post-Brexit UK.  They'll be too busy cosying up to their corporate pals who, in turn, will be delighted with the easy ride they can look forward to in the UK.

I've been open to persuasion.  But if I'm honest, I've been under-whelmed by the Leave campaign in particular.  I was expecting more.  Their failure to spell out what a post-Brexit UK would look like will, I expect, have much the same effect as the SNP's failure in 2014 to spell out what a post-Independence Scotland would look like.  I'm with Chalkie: I can see a 55%-60% vote in favour of Remain.

[bullethead]

I have read countless articles, listened to hours of debate and can honestly say that I still have no idea if we will be better off in or out so I will likely be voting remain for the following reasons...

There seem to be far more people I "like" in the remain camp, versus the likes of Gove and Farage on the Brexit side who make my blood boil.

My teenage kids are desperate for us to stay... a bit idealistic but they can't see why we can't all 'just be friends' and work together😂

Finally, in the absence of any convincing or believable argument on either side, it's better the devil you know.

That said, my mind could still get changed!

[Reg Smeeton]

I've been leaning slightly towards Remain for some time, not because of any great love for the EU - which is a shambles - but because the alternative is mostly likely a far more free-market UK where big business is likely to have a bigger say.  The rights of the worker are not going to be top of Gove's or Johnson's priorities in a post-Brexit UK.  They'll be too busy cosying up to their corporate pals who, in turn, will be delighted with the easy ride they can look forward to in the UK.

I've been open to persuasion.  But if I'm honest, I've been under-whelmed by the Leave campaign in particular.  I was expecting more.  Their failure to spell out what a post-Brexit UK would look like will, I expect, have much the same effect as the SNP's failure in 2014 to spell out what a post-Independence Scotland would look like.  I'm with Chalkie: I can see a 55%-60% vote in favour of Remain.

I may be wrong here, but didn't you join the Lib Dems last May? I thought the LD's for many years operated on a policy of closer integration, including the Euro, until controversially dropping the Europhilia, not because they thought it a bad idea, but reaolising there were no votes in it.

You'd have thought the LibDems would be out there arguing the case for ever closer union on the back of Remain. Disappointing, as that at least have put the argument out there.

[inept and tiresome]

They have failed to continually get their accounts signed off for 21 years, due to high levels of fraud.

[/quote
This is a damning sentence. I didn't realise it has gone on so so long.
Would you be happy working for a company like that? Would you invest your hard earnt money in a company like that? If the answer is no, then why be happy to be ruled by a government like that?
Corruption is rife in the EU and worse, it's tolerated.

[A Gent Orange]

On the subject of accounts, this is worth reading. https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

FullFact are impartial fact-checkers paid for by voluntary contribs.

[Flashheart]

I've had little choice to follow this in a sense as it's all over FB. I was expecting it to be a split among the knuckle-dragging "Britain is for British" types going for OUT, and the "Love everybody no matter what" types going for IN.

It's not been that at all. From what I can see there's no such correlation, and It seems to be about 50/50 .

[Ardiles]

I may be wrong here, but didn't you join the Lib Dems last May? I thought the LD's for many years operated on a policy of closer integration, including the Euro, until controversially dropping the Europhilia, not because they thought it a bad idea, but reaolising there were no votes in it.

You'd have thought the LibDems would be out there arguing the case for ever closer union on the back of Remain. Disappointing, as that at least have put the argument out there.

I left again 12 months later.  Never engaged with it after joining.

[THE FLASH]

Voted out on the basis that George 'Silver spoon' Osborne and Cameron wanted me to stay in and the reporting by BBC has been biased IMO.

BUT....nobody knows what will happen.

A cricket ball is being thrown at a windscreen.

EU in say it will break and Brexit say it won't......truth is nobody will know until the ball is thrown.

[Summerof69]

They have failed to continually get their accounts signed off for 21 years, due to high levels of fraud.

Would you be happy working for a company like that? Would you invest your hard earnt money in a company like that? If the answer is no, then why be happy to be ruled by a government like that?
Corruption is rife in the EU and worse, it's tolerated.

If the EU was a company, they would've been shut down by now...and they don't seem to care. They all have their noses in the trough, and as long as it continues they don't give a flying.

And I wouldn't be surprised Cameron has been offered a nice job in Brussels once he leaves as PM, as he was giving speeches last year saying that we would be successful out of the EU...and now he's saying that it'll be the end of the world.

The fact is most of the biggest economies in the world are not in the EU, and we need to look at a world view.

It is noticeable that 4 of the banks that helped caused the last economic crash are big remain backers. Not only that Goldman Sachs produced the report for the EU that said that Greece were able to join the Euro....and that has gone pretty well. The Euro will collapse...and it's a case of when, and how bad it is. You cannot continue putting sticky plasters onto a gushing wound...

[Summerof69]

I've been open to persuasion.  But if I'm honest, I've been under-whelmed by the Leave campaign in particular.  I was expecting more.

Well I'm totally underwhelmed by the Remain campaign. All they do is produce scare stories after scare stories. At no point have they said 'This is the reason/s to Remain...'

At the moment, Leave have all the momentum. People can see Cameron is a busted flush, and they do not believe anything he says on the issue, as proved by the Sky debate last week, where the audience was laughing at him. Anytime he has been challenged on TV in the last week, he has been a disaster.