Coronavirus

[horlock07]

A vaccine is already in production, such is the confidence that testing will be succesful. It could even be with us by September. Fingers crossed.

There's also a lot of confidence over a treatment.

I know this does not mean it WILL happen, just to pre-empt the inevitable 'ackshuallys'.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-scientists-working-on-covid-19-vaccine-near-breakthrough-on-antibody-treatment-12002160

Just in time for the season to start on 30th September then, that will do.

[RobertT]

This could be encouraging:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/11/us/missouri-hairstylists-coronavirus-clients-trnd/index.html

It won't tell us anything new, in terms of the types of things we could be doing to reduce risk, but it may reinforce that they actually do work, and pretty damned well.

I know mask wearing was originally not on the table, but that seems to have been entirely to avoid Hospitals running out.  That's something Govt.s need to sort out for future Pandemics - supplies.  If the messaging could now switch to a positive reinforcement of mask wearing/continued distance and cleaning, and by doing so we can live with the virus for a while, we could maybe get through to some of those who just want to get on with life and to hell with everything.

[Outletred]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing- the advice from SAGE at the time was to lock down on 23 March. It is easy for people to come out now saying it should have been 2 weeks earlier etc.

This may well be the case with what we know now, however at the time the government acted on the scientific advice available- there are clear minutes from SAGE to prove this.

Remember this is a new and complex virus about which the scientists are learning more every day.

On death rates- there is a stark difference in how we log deaths compared to other nations- this makes any comparisons competely meaningless. In Germany for instance they do not mention Covid on the death certificate  if the patient had any other pre existing medical conditions like for example COPD.

Once we are through this there should be an enquiry of what we could do better next time, as there will be in all other countries as well. There should also be huge questions to answer from China and the WHO in how this has been handled- if China would have told the truth back in December a lot of the spread could have been avoided.Countries like Italy and Spain were left in the dark about how bad things really were which allowed a big spread into Europe.

It is very easy for people like Starmer, Stewart and others to have hindsight now- if they were in the governments position in March they would have done exactly the same thing with the advice given to them at the time.

[pauld]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing- the advice from SAGE at the time was to lock down on 23 March. It is easy for people to come out now saying it should have been 2 weeks earlier etc

It is very easy for people like Starmer, Stewart and others to have hindsight now- if they were in the governments position in March they would have done exactly the same thing with the advice given to them at the time.

Stewart was calling for lockdown at the start of March. Channel 4 showed last night govt had scientists urging lockdown two weeks before they did. It's not hindsight, the advice was there, they delayed and prevaricated. We have paid the price for that in 10s of thousands of deaths and are yet to see the full economic cost.

[Outletred]

Stewart was calling for lockdown at the start of March. Channel 4 showed last night govt had scientists urging lockdown two weeks before they did. It's not hindsight, the advice was there, they delayed and prevaricated. We have paid the price for that in 10s of thousands of deaths and are yet to see the full economic cost.

Stewart is not a scientist or part of SAGE. Channel 4 would say that as it suits their agenda.

The SAGE minutes back up that lockdown was not advised until March 23. Yes in hindsight with what we know now it should have happened earlier- however the government (and any other government of any other colour) would have done exactly the same thing.

[pauld]

Stewart is not a scientist or part of SAGE.

I know but you said he was talking in hindsight. I pointed out he wasn't.

Channel 4 would say that as it suits their agenda. The SAGE minutes back up that lockdown was not advised until March 23. Yes in hindsight with what we know now it should have happened earlier- however the government (and any other government of any other colour) would have done exactly the same thing.

The advice was presented in a paper written by Prof Steven Riley on 9th March to SPI-M which is a sub committee of SAGE. It's not something Ch 4 have just come up with off the top of their heads. There were others also making the same point at the time. The govt chose not to act.

Your point was that this was all hindsight and no-one could have known at the time. I'm showing that isn't the case. The govt did indeed have conflicting advice from scientists, it was always untrue to say they were "following the science" as they claimed at the time because there wasn't a unified "science" to follow. They made the wrong policy decision and many thousands of people paid for that error with their lives; many hundreds of thousands of others will pay with their jobs.

[horlock07]

Channel 4 would say that as it suits their agenda.

Not sure one can claim that reporting the news and holding the government to account is an 'agenda' unless one aspires the government to be beyond reproach?

[Outletred]

I know but you said he was talking in hindsight. I pointed out he wasn't.
The advice was presented in a paper written by Prof Steven Riley on 9th March to SPI-M which is a sub committee of SAGE. It's not something Ch 4 have just come up with off the top of their heads. There were others also making the same point at the time. The govt chose not to act.

Your point was that this was all hindsight and no-one could have known at the time. I'm showing that isn't the case. The govt did indeed have conflicting advice from scientists, it was always untrue to say they were "following the science" as they claimed at the time because there wasn't a unified "science" to follow. They made the wrong policy decision and many thousands of people paid for that error with their lives; many hundreds of thousands of others will pay with their jobs.

The government based the decision on at the time on the majority of the scientists on the SAGE panel-and the advice at the time was lockdown on 23 March.

The decision would have been reached by SAGE by the majority at the time- and this was confirmed in the minutes and recorded. Any other government would have done exactly the same in these circumstances.

[Outletred]

Not sure one can claim that reporting the news and holding the government to account is an 'agenda' unless one aspires the government to be beyond reproach?

No but you only have to watch the BBC/Sky/Channel 4 and it is obvious they are anti the government and leftwing driven.

I don't watch the news to hear political views either way- i want to see balanced reporting. The reason the public have so little faith in the media at the moment is precisely because of this.

Very different in Scotland- where care home deaths for example are much worse than here- but Sturgeon is loved by the media up there and given very little challenge or held to account because she fit's their agenda.

[pauld]

No but you only have to watch the BBC/Sky/Channel 4 and it is obvious they are anti the government and leftwing driven.

This is one of the really interesting things about how polarised all this has become. Sky News are still Murdoch owned, BBC political correspondents are constantly critcised (and rightly IMO) for how often the likes of Laura Kuenssberg, Nick Robinson et al peddle a govt line uncritically or soft-soap questions when they should be probing. And yet the right see only left-wing bias because they dare to ask any questions at all of one of the most staggeringly inept govts we have ever seen. So much so that even the notorious Trots at the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph are criticising the shambles of how the govt has handled COVID.

EDIT: and for the record I'm sure I'm also guilty of this kind of cognitive bias on occasion i.e. dismissing a news report or source as being biased one way or another because of my own skew. I try to adjust for it, but we all do it

[horlock07]

This is one of the really interesting things about how polarised all this has become. Sky News are still Murdoch owned, BBC political correspondents are constantly critcised (and rightly IMO) for how often the likes of Laura Kuenssberg, Nick Robinson et al peddle a govt line uncritically or soft-soap questions when they should be probing. And yet the right see only left-wing bias because they dare to ask any questions at all of one of the most staggeringly inept govts we have ever seen. So much so that even the notorious Trots at the Mail, the Express and the Telegraph are criticising the shambles of how the govt has handled COVID.

[horlock07]

Shit just got real. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/marmite-shortage-jar-small-large-yeast-where-to-buy-a9560106.html

[RobertT]

No but you only have to watch the BBC/Sky/Channel 4 and it is obvious they are anti the government and leftwing driven.

I don't watch the news to hear political views either way- i want to see balanced reporting. The reason the public have so little faith in the media at the moment is precisely because of this.

Very different in Scotland- where care home deaths for example are much worse than here- but Sturgeon is loved by the media up there and given very little challenge or held to account because she fit's their agenda.

At least the UK media tries to hide any bias, try watching MSNBC and Fox News on a split screen.  It's like living in parallel Universes at times.

As an outsider now looking in, I can add some thought to this.

I think the BBC actually gets a bit of a hard time from those on the left, as well as the right - maybe that means they are actually somewhere in the middle, as they should be.  However, while I don;t think  they lurch too far beyond the middle, I have noticed since living in the USA that they share a lot of reporting with CNN.  The latter is most certainly biased against what would be described as the Populism side of the fence.

As we all know Ron Burgandy killed news reporting when he provided commentary on that car chase.

[Bob's Orange]

Shit just got real. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/marmite-shortage-jar-small-large-yeast-where-to-buy-a9560106.html

Shiiiiiiiit!! Is vegemite any good?

[Reg Smeeton]

Shit just got real. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/marmite-shortage-jar-small-large-yeast-where-to-buy-a9560106.html

Tell me about it.... I'm getting to the end of my 250 ml jar and have been hoping for replacement supplies to no avail so far, about a month now.

I suspected it must be to do with the lack of brewing