New beginnings - 25% Truth, 80% Bollocks

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

Eh? What I meant was that if last year we showed a profit of £150,000 in the accounts how could we be said to be losing £1m every season

Especially when they were on record as saying the Man City game was worth £250k to £300k to us.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

But is that a rationalisation of jobs as we had too many or just cutting it to the bone.

The most recent accounts 2021-22 suggest that the staff numbers went up between 2020-21 and 2021-2022 from 79-128, now now idea where these extra jobs were, may be hot dog sellers for all I know but suggests that in Clem's 1st year they employed a heck of a lot more than under Power?

Staff seemingly going down but accounts say they're going up is a huge red flag for being fleeced.

[RobertT]

Staff seemingly going down but accounts say they're going up is a huge red flag for being fleeced.

The staff numbers are a red herring - it includes any paid individuals, such as matchday staff.  The previous year was impacted by Covid, so the average hourly paid staff at match days was zero at times.

edit, plus they took concessions in house, so while the operating costs and staff numbers would have gone up, they replaced a single line item of costs in previous years.  You would suspect they did this as they expected better net margins, so the additional staff and costs would not be a BAD thing.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

I note that the TSTBL are moaning that some fans are already 'moaning' ahead of tonight's phone-in. From a bit of digging and personally, I haven't come across much moaning. Mainly people just being forensic with what was stated in previous statements Vs what the latest statements say. Doesn't bode well ahead of them fielding questions tonight if they've already categorised being forensic as 'moaning'.

Don't look at the facebook group.

Clem is our lord and saviour and anyone who questions him is a dirty little liar and not a true supporter.

Fucking mongrels who thought Lee Power was a thoroughly good bloke too.

[RobertT]

And if anyone from the Trust is reading and really does care about holding the club to account, especially when being shown the Accounts in a darkened room under threat of being taken hostage, just show the club this:

https://www.carlisleunited.co.uk/club/finances/annual-audited-financial-statements/

I call BS on their response to you that such detailed info cannot be shared.  It's all a question of choice.  Put up or shut the fuck up about being open.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Would the sale of the club + Clem’s 50% share of the CG be attractive enough to any prospective new owner? I’d imagine most people would want 100% of everything.

[RobertT]

Would the sale of the club + Clem’s 50% share of the CG be attractive enough to any prospective new owner? I’d imagine most people would want 100% of everything.

Which is why it would take a few years, not weeks.

One thing is for certain, football clubs always attract owners.  Not always good ones, but there are enough people out there with money to burn and an ego to fill.  The trick here would be having some sort of investment and control - even minimal.  Hell, we've been handed over four times and we didn't even have a llong term lease on the ground let alone ownership.

[horlock07]

Staff seemingly going down but accounts say they're going up is a huge red flag for being fleeced.

Indeed, albeit seemingly is doing a fair bit of lifting there.

The staff numbers are a red herring - it includes any paid individuals, such as matchday staff.  The previous year was impacted by Covid, so the average hourly paid staff at match days was zero at times.

edit, plus they took concessions in house, so while the operating costs and staff numbers would have gone up, they replaced a single line item of costs in previous years.  You would suspect they did this as they expected better net margins, so the additional staff and costs would not be a BAD thing.

They are, but its one of the easier comparables, accepted as in my earlier post they could be casuals flogging hot dogs for all we know however, for completeness

Year to May 2022 128
Year to May 2021 79
Year to May 2020 99
Year to May 2019 130
Year to May 2018 123

For those who have looked at things n more detail, who was compiling the accounts in the Power days, Clem seems to use an external company in Swindon (which surprised me). I see Seebeck continue their path to dissolution.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

That was Bradley, the rubbish Williams-era right back. Louie is the more recent winger.

Ah yes. Not surprised I had them confused, my player knowledge under Power era is thin as I wasn't going and thoroughly fucked off with it all speaking to absolute divs on Facebook who thought Power was our lord and savour just the same as they do Clem.

How well we're doing on the pitch is stopping me from going in the same direction now to be honest.

[4D]

Payment of a creditor on the Balance Sheet/Capital Account doesn't hit the P&L.

[horlock07]

Which is why it would take a few years, not weeks.

One thing is for certain, football clubs always attract owners.  Not always good ones, but there are enough people out there with money to burn and an ego to fill.  The trick here would be having some sort of investment and control - even minimal.  Hell, we've been handed over four times and we didn't even have a llong term lease on the ground let alone ownership.

Unfortunately over those 4 changes of ownership we've never managed to combine money and ego in one person. 3 haven't had a post to piss in whilst there seemed little to no plan whilst Black was in the seat.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Wonder why Clem didn’t offer Black more than Power’s £1m seeing as he had to eventually pay the whole shabang.

[Quagmire]

Wonder why Clem didn’t offer Black more than Power’s £1m seeing as he had to eventually pay the whole shabang.

Clem didn’t own the club when Power bought them.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Wouldn’t have thought owning the club would be a requisite for buying the debenture off Black. Couldn’t he have sold them to anyone he wanted to?

Not that I know.

[ChalkyWhiteIsGod]

The effort required to make it work is precisely why I suggest they just revert to focusing entirely on that - let the couple of people tasked with being on the JV work on the ground.  All other Trust efforts become focused on a way to buy the club with a degree of fan involvement.  I don't even mean 50% - the fact the fans have 50% of the ground is already a way of protecting it to a degree, alongside a signed long lease (which sort of rules out people who'd be interested in using the club as a Trojan Horse from some other development opportunities).

I didn't say it would be easy, just a worthy goal.

You don't have to pay off the debt to Clem - right now he is getting none of it back.  You can structure a deal that pays that back through normal operations, so you would need to buy out his share value, which now includes the ground and lease.  Still a not insignificant amount - so here is the rub, if Clem wants to continue pretending to be in this for the club - start pegging him down now on what that exit deal needs to look like, in public.  Clearly he won't negotiate fully in public, but you can at least begin to tease what it may take out of him.  Then, work on an offer.

I am sure the fans buying the ground was a tough deal, possibly too much to think was possible, yet it was achieved.  There are ways, they may take a while, but ways nonetheless.

Even if owning the club or even the controlling share is unrealistic. Can we do 10% or what is eventually needed to buy the club? That would at least get us a seat at the table for full transparency. It definitely needs looking at.