Finally...a man who stands up and says what a lot of people really think

[dell boy]

So what you're saying dell is that none of us achieve anything at all in this country because we won't be left to die if we can't afford health care?

No, I dont think so. I just found  the article of interest.
I'm nowhere near clever enough to argue my case in words against a lot of those involved in this debate.

I will pick up on a point TalkTalk made about going across the channel, and knowing his desire to live in Greece, when you eventually get there which I hope you do, you are going to have one almighty shock about their health care. It makes our A&E look like an express service.

[BANGKOK RED]

When I as in Greece, the treatment of choice for motorbike accidents was a generous helping of Iodine, maybe with a couple of bandages for good measure.

[ghanimah]

I'm getting out of here as soon as I can - plans laid. It's been turned into a shit hole. There are far better places to live in the world, even over the channel is better.

Do I understand you correctly Alan? You regularly rail against big Government, high taxes and state interference and then suggest that France is a better place to live. (Whispers quietly) You do know that France is historically more socialist than the UK don't you?

[Ardiles]

They have a word for it: dirigiste (ie directed from the centre).

[jonny72]

The one thing I do agree on is that publicly run "companies" are stupidly inefficient.

I'd modify that statement slightly - public "companies" run by politicians are stupidly inefficient.

My main argument is the BBC. Whilst it is publicly funded the involvement of politicians is minimal and I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that the BBC is inefficient or does anything other than an incredible job for the money. Plus it is widely regarded as one of, if not, the best broadcaster in the world.

Remove politicians from the NHS and I reckon things would improve exponentially.

[Nemo]

My main argument is the BBC. Whilst it is publicly funded the involvement of politicians is minimal and I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that the BBC is inefficient or does anything other than an incredible job for the money. Plus it is widely regarded as one of, if not, the best broadcaster in the world.

Clearly you've been lucky enough never to have opened a copy of the Daily Mail or Telegraph.

[Samdy Gray]

And just to emphasise this, from my gross income I pay 22% to the NHS.

Bullshit.

You pay 22% to the National Insurance Fund, of which only 2.05% goes towards NHS costs.

The rest pays incapacity benefit, widows’ benefits, maternity allowance, guardian’s allowance and jobseeker’s allowance.

[Bogus Dave]

No No No. Don't let facts get in the way

[Samdy Gray]

Facts ruin all good arguments.

[Arriba]

but the subjects raised are still debateable

[Phil_S]

I think that the NHS is a great model. It's not a socilaist ideal as such. (An idea thought up by the Tories & hijacked by Labour)..
The problem is that it is now as in common witrh the benefits system is that it is much more than a safety net.
The NHS is in my view the right vehicle for life saving treatments but not for "lifestyle treatments" such as IVF, Cosmetic Surgery etc.
The pensions tax credits system is a perfect illustration of Dell's story. It's now nit worth contributing say £20 a month to a private pension as any benefits it would bring would reduce the pensions credits payable so why bother ?!
The whole tax & benefits system is a mess. My son was unemployed, but got a few days work through an agency as a labourer. He signed off did the work, & got paid £100. He had been subjected to emergency tax, & his comment was "I shouldn't have bothered".

[jayohaitchenn]

I would hardly call IVF a lifestyle choice. You can't compare the gift of life with a new nose.

[Talk Talk]

I'd modify that statement slightly - public "companies" run by politicians are stupidly inefficient.

My main argument is the BBC. Whilst it is publicly funded the involvement of politicians is minimal and I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that the BBC is inefficient or does anything other than an incredible job for the money. Plus it is widely regarded as one of, if not, the best broadcaster in the world.

Remove politicians from the NHS and I reckon things would improve exponentially.

The BBC was brilliant until about 10 years ago. Now it is completely biased and just a mouthpiece for the government.

Remove politicians from the NHS and it wouldn't be socialised medicine, would it? Now there's an idea - privatise the thing or even better break it up and encourage more new private providers.

[Talk Talk]

Do I understand you correctly Alan? You regularly rail against big Government, high taxes and state interference and then suggest that France is a better place to live. (Whispers quietly) You do know that France is historically more socialist than the UK don't you?

I was referring to the way of life, the ethos, values and so on.

Politicians are shits and governments are evil wherever you go.

Anyway, I'm off to San Tropez in jolly old France for a long weekend. Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[pumbaa]

I think that the NHS is a great model. It's not a socilaist ideal as such. (An idea thought up by the Tories & hijacked by Labour)..
The problem is that it is now as in common witrh the benefits system is that it is much more than a safety net.
The NHS is in my view the right vehicle for life saving treatments but not for "lifestyle treatments" such as IVF, Cosmetic Surgery etc.
The pensions tax credits system is a perfect illustration of Dell's story. It's now nit worth contributing say £20 a month to a private pension as any benefits it would bring would reduce the pensions credits payable so why bother ?!
The whole tax & benefits system is a mess. My son was unemployed, but got a few days work through an agency as a labourer. He signed off did the work, & got paid £100. He had been subjected to emergency tax, & his comment was "I shouldn't have bothered".

Please explain your rationale behind deciding that IVF is a 'lifestyle choice'?