Garner Out

[Pookemon]

Garner out? Seriously? Have a fucking word with yourselves.


We are 8th in the league; not 8 points adrift. This is despite having half a dozen or so first team players a couple of weeks before the season started, no coaching staff and no proper pre-season.

On top of that we are working within a transfer embargo that limits what we can bring in. One hand is tied until that, EFL punishment and ownership issues are sorted.

We had a shit January with 3 top quality loan players recalled including one of our top goalscorers. So we have had to replace 25% or so of the side and are having to rebuild - the side needs to gel again.

Garner isn't the one setting the tone of young players we develop to sell or loans from higher league clubs that we will develop. That comes from Clem/Rob.

Yes we have been shit at home. It's fucking painful to watch at times.  Equally we have been pretty stellar away by and large.

Garner may turn out not to be the answer, but in my book he at least needs a fair crack at the whip. That isn't sacking him because we have dropped out of the play offs  If you get rid of Garner, whoever you bring in will be dealt the same shit hand. Would they fare any better?

The objective this season was survival.  We are way over that.

Yes the objective was survival, and the way we started the season from such a standing start is to his credit, but the last 6 weeks has been atrocious.   That isn't just to do with player changes although that will clearly have an impact.

 I'm not saying he should go but I'd like to see him take some responsibility and stop blaming refs, the fixtures (as he did today) or the players dropping deep or not being good enough.   Garner is the one asking them to play risky football at all times, he's at fault for the environment where players are having a go at the ref and he is also at fault for some some shocking tactical decisions.

Go no but he should take a fucking hard look at his own performance.

[Godd002]

Too soon for me…but…he does need to demonstrate he has the want and ability to change things.

Different formations, different game plans, different styles of play, different recruitment.

It just all feels a bit samey every game and I can’t help but think that is by design and that makes it a poor design imo

Of course the usual thing with this - who would you replace Garner with?

Agree!  from my understanding he is a new manager at this level so he does need to learn and grow, just need to see that willingness as the team moves forward.

[Jimmy HaveHave]

Agree!  from my understanding he is a new manager at this level so he does need to learn and grow, just need to see that willingness as the team moves forward.

That's what makes it so frustrating we've been superb in many of the away games which makes the home form baffling and points to tactical decision making rather than suddenly becoming a bad team.

[Crackity Jones]

Yes the objective was survival, and the way we started the season from such a standing start is to his credit, but the last 6 weeks has been atrocious.   That isn't just to do with player changes although that will clearly have an impact.

 I'm not saying he should go but I'd like to see him take some responsibility and stop blaming refs, the fixtures (as he did today) or the players dropping deep or not being good enough.   Garner is the one asking them to play risky football at all times, he's at fault for the environment where players are having a go at the ref and he is also at fault for some some shocking tactical decisions.

Go no but he should take a fucking hard look at his own performance.

Yup. 100% agree with you.

[Godd002]

That's what makes it so frustrating we've been superb in many of the away games which makes the home form baffling and points to tactical decision making rather than suddenly becoming a bad team.

i have not really looked at it closely but what does the coach do so differently in the away games than at home to make such a difference?  And if there is something, why would he do something different away vs home and then if it works away why not do it at home?  there must be reasons.

[theakston2k]

Genuine question; we keep talking about the embargo but do people really believe that even without it we would be much different? We’ve been sculpted to play a certain way with an obsession over attackers who aren’t strikers and I can’t believe that JoJo, McKirdy, Williams, Gladwin, Reed etc wouldn’t have been top targets anyway.

I’m genuinely not sure even without the embargo we’d actually be much different, maybe we’d have an actual striker of our own but I don’t think we’d actually be much different based on the way Garner talks and acts. I’m starting to feel the embargo excuse is largely irrelevant.

[The Million Pound Man]

rode our luck a number of times away from home too- Salford and Newport immediately spring to mind as games we were very lucky to win. its just that away teams have to go for it a little more and give us space. were so easy to play against at home.

garner seems like a nice guy and a good coach, but this is mens football. need a proper man manager in charge with a pragmatic approach. cant see him being sacked this season, hopefully hes moved on in the summer- hes clearly useful and has a career in the game ahead of him, but he aint a manager.

tippy tappy nice passing with good XG stats is all well and good, but when its all said and done its a results business. give me shithouse hoofball with the ball barely touching the ground all day as long as we get out of this rancid league.

[DiV]

Genuine question; we keep talking about the embargo but do people really believe that even without it we would be much different? We’ve been sculpted to play a certain way with an obsession over attackers who aren’t strikers and I can’t believe that JoJo, McKirdy, Williams, Gladwin, Reed etc wouldn’t have been top targets anyway.

I’m genuinely not sure even without the embargo we’d actually be much different, maybe we’d have an actual striker of our own but I don’t think we’d actually be much different based on the way Garner talks and acts. I’m starting to feel the embargo excuse is largely irrelevant.

Probably not.
Didn’t he do the same thing at Rovers?

[theakston2k]

Probably not.
Didn’t he do the same thing at Rovers?

Pretty much, I’m starting to think the embargo is kind of irrelevant and shouldn’t be used as a defence.

Also potentially a controversial opinion but could it be having no preseason with him was actually an advantage? We started pretty well especially away from home, but as the season has gone on and he’s increasingly forced his style on the players we’ve actually become increasingly inconsistent. Obviously the heavier pitches and loan situation is a factor as well.

[DiV]

Pretty much, I’m starting to think the embargo is kind of irrelevant and shouldn’t be used as a defence.

Also potentially a controversial opinion but could it be having no preseason with him was actually an advantage? We started pretty well especially away from home, but as the season has gone on and he’s increasingly forced his style on the players we’ve actually become increasingly inconsistent. Obviously the heavier pitches and loan situation is a factor as well.

Think that might be a bit harsh.

To me it’s more like playing rock, paper, scissors every week and we always choose rock.

To start with the other people don’t know that so could play any of three.
After playing rock each time, the other person knows how to beat us; choose paper.

Once people are confident they can beat us with paper - that when we should get the scissors out but we won’t we’ll play rock again.

[molepar]

Think that might be a bit harsh.

To me it’s more like playing rock, paper, scissors every week and we always choose rock.

To start with the other people don’t know that so could play any of three.
After playing rock each time, the other person knows how to beat us; choose paper.

Once people are confident they can beat us with paper - that when we should get the scissors out but we won’t we’ll play rock again.

Good analogy.

I think there is a lack of flexibility overall in the game plans but I have noticed we have been a little bit better at mixing it up over past few games with occasional direct play or longer balls when appropriate.

Against Crawley I think we played very, very well for first 30 mins of the game and I don’t think the rest of the game was quite as bad as others made out, however it wasn’t great.

We create a lot of chances usually and there are fine margins between a massive win and a disappointing result. Against Crawley we had a hatful of early chances.

I watched the highlights of today’s game and it didn’t look like a disaster. We seemed to create a few chances. Their first goal was very good. I’m not convinced there was a massive deflection on their second and think JJW will be disappointed not to have saved that.

We do definitely need more sustained tempo to our play and I wish we would try this even if it means risking possession as that is how we are going to win games.

Given where we were pre season I don’t want to moan too much - things could be a lot worse!

I think some people are forgetting just how bad the football was under Sheridan. Garner needs to be given a bit of time.

[Trashbat?]

Probably not.
Didn’t he do the same thing at Rovers?

When he first joined us Rovers fans all said he wouldn’t sign out and out forwards. Instead he had a philosophy of trying to develop young forward type players. It feels like he is doing the same again here.

[The Grim Reaper]

Indeed. Ghosts linger and incredibly so at Town...

Very true, where is Power these days? Seems to have fallen off the grid completely.

[REDBUCK]

Why do you choose to ignore the other half of the season we have played - the away games?

Obviously, they don't count. You don't need any tactical nouse or game management skills to win those games.

[RobertT]

Obviously, they don't count. You don't need any tactical nouse or game management skills to win those games.

It's an interesting conundrum.  What would be the fans reaction to a team that won 23 at home but lost 23 away - 69 points being mid table?  I know that is not going to happen, but I presume such a Manager would get a lot of slack, maybe even have fans enthused much more so than our current situation.

While a Manager clearly should just be trying to win games, this was my thinking about whether or not someone at the top table might be tempted to have a flee in Garners ear a little here.  The approach he uses clearly has better results away from home but some glaring issues at home.  He may try and deny it, but we have seen it over enough games to determine patterns.  The style manages to achieve more chances away with teams more likely to try and attack.  At home, we have struggled when teams do one of two things - either press and harry us, knowing we are weak without the ball (Exeter, and was it Harrogate?) or sit and block the middle (Crawley, Bradford).  Garner seems intent to carry on regardless, should his boss be pushing for him to apply some changes at home?  I know football is a special beast, but poor performance would usually get a reaction from your Boss (be that guiding someone or telling them).

It's clearly not going to change though, Garner may not have a huge amount of experience, but we appear to be getting the same recipe that was used at Bristol Rovers, just with players he has chosen/been involved in choosing and at a lower level (so opposition is less likely to cope).  One thing seems clear to me - Reed is central (pardon the pun) to our season.  Without him we really do look a lot weaker, and I knocked him in his first game!  We are not going to suddenly be a better team without the ball, but without Reed we look a little rudderless with it.