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DiV
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« Reply #30 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:27:18 »

Seems a bit ludicrous to say but are we held back due to geography? Given that Reading, Bristol City and probably Southampton and London clubs (specifically Chelsea) are very easy to get to from Swindon, the more elite of kids are much more likely to get a better footballing education at these clubs rather than us. Obviously the occasional gem 'slips through the cracks' but more often than not get hoovered up when it looks like they have a chance of becoming good professionals. (Bogle and the kid that went to Brighton cases in point)

Until we can compete with these clubs its unlikely we are going to become a conveyor belt of talent sadly.

No, those are all exactly the reasons why we don’t have a conveyer belt of players coming through every year. It perfectly explains why any better prospects we have on our books get bought by bigger clubs.

All of those reasons also explain why most of our youth products end up in non league.


I just find it a bit odd that for us there is little in between. A youth product that isn’t good enough to swiped by the big boys but good enough to play in the football league.
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theakston2k

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« Reply #31 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:29:50 »

Jon Stewart was absolute toilet.
That was my point, he had the potential to be much better. Pompey and Burnley both took a punt on him after he left us.

Our youth development is poor across all positions but especially bad when it comes to keepers.
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horlock07

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« Reply #32 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:32:00 »

Looking back the one who many seemed to think was going to be 'the one' was Andy Caton, but a combination of injuries and limited playing time (shocked to see he only ever made 15 appearances 10 from the bench) put paid to that, he and Ashan Holgate were supposed to be the dogs cohooners in that youth team.

Didn't that lad that Ince took to Macclesfield with him do reasonably well.....
« Last Edit: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:34:04 by horlock07 » Logged
DiV
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« Reply #33 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:33:18 »

That was my point, he had the potential to be much better. Pompey and Burnley both took a punt on him after he left us.

Our youth development is poor across all positions but especially bad when it comes to keepers.

Nope, Jon Stewart had no potential.
All he had was size & a short temper.
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theakston2k

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« Reply #34 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:35:15 »

Nope, Jon Stewart had no potential.
All he had was size & a short temper.
Must have had something for clubs higher up the food chain than us to take him on as a punt.
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #35 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:35:35 »

Looking back the one who many seemed to think was going to be 'the one' was Andy Caton, but a combination of injuries and limited playing time (shocked to see he only ever made 15 appearances 10 from the bench) put paid to that, he and Ashan Holgate were supposed to be the dogs cohooners in that youth team.

Didn't that lad that Ince took to Macclesfield with him do reasonably well.....

Caton was a Southampton product I think. We signed him as a scholar as a 16 year old.
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we've been to Aberdeen, we hate the Hibs, they make us spew up, so make some noise,
the gorgie boys, for Hearts in Europe.
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« Reply #36 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:35:59 »

Must have had something for clubs higher up the food chain than us to take him on as a punt.

Yeah.
Size.
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #37 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:40:16 »

No, those are all exactly the reasons why we don’t have a conveyer belt of players coming through every year. It perfectly explains why any better prospects we have on our books get bought by bigger clubs.

All of those reasons also explain why most of our youth products end up in non league.


I just find it a bit odd that for us there is little in between. A youth product that isn’t good enough to swiped by the big boys but good enough to play in the football league.

Perhaps the big boys can afford to keep the youth products that don't look like they are going to be good enough just in case they actually turn out to be decent? Sounds a bit unlikely but its not unheard of that clubs do stockpile players more than they really need to (Chelsea in particular)
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we've been to Aberdeen, we hate the Hibs, they make us spew up, so make some noise,
the gorgie boys, for Hearts in Europe.
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« Reply #38 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:41:14 »

Yeah.
Size.
Which is ultimately a key factor with modern keepers, in contrast all our other youth keepers seem to be small and lightweight. I'm not sure whether its just a lack of physical development or what but we don't produce keepers that are up to the physicality of league football.
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horlock07

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« Reply #39 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:54:01 »

Which is ultimately a key factor with modern keepers, in contrast all our other youth keepers seem to be small and lightweight. I'm not sure whether its just a lack of physical development or what but we don't produce keepers that are up to the physicality of league football.

Stewart was only 6'2 its hardly like he was goliath, no idea how tall Matthews is, interweb suggest 6' so only an inch shorter than Trueman, same height as Camp.

If we are basing keepers ability on size Fryer trumps them all. 
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DiV
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« Reply #40 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 11:59:09 »

Which is ultimately a key factor with modern keepers, in contrast all our other youth keepers seem to be small and lightweight. I'm not sure whether its just a lack of physical development or what but we don't produce keepers that are up to the physicality of league football.

I agree with you.
Out of the youth keepers you mentioned that basically hung around and we never good enough, I’d say purely on keeping ability Stewart was probably the worst!
I watched a lot of him at youth level and he was basically a big hot head - which yeah intimidated kids. I can’t imagine any of them ever wanted to go one on one with him or challenge him for crosses & corners.

He was most definitely built to be a keeper. Was never going to be good enough & whilst it’s assumptions on my part I would guess the main reasons Portsmouth, Bournemouth and Burnley looked at him was based on his size.

I always thought Callum Antell looked technically good, no idea what became of him (opens google)
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horlock07

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« Reply #41 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 12:16:24 »

I agree with you.
Out of the youth keepers you mentioned that basically hung around and we never good enough, I’d say purely on keeping ability Stewart was probably the worst!
I watched a lot of him at youth level and he was basically a big hot head - which yeah intimidated kids. I can’t imagine any of them ever wanted to go one on one with him or challenge him for crosses & corners.

He was most definitely built to be a keeper. Was never going to be good enough & whilst it’s assumptions on my part I would guess the main reasons Portsmouth, Bournemouth and Burnley looked at him was based on his size.

I always thought Callum Antell looked technically good, no idea what became of him (opens google)

I think a lot of the issue we have had with young keepers is that they have been retained mainly as a backside on a seat rather than any sort of inclination that they were (or were ever going to be) good enough. Look at Will Henry, was here for 5 seasons, played a few league games in the first two seasons, a cup game in the third and then never played again for the last two seasons. 

We seem to send youths out on loan thinking they are miraculously going to become better players.
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pauld
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« Reply #42 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 12:26:15 »

I wasn't trying to write him off. I was just trying to say that in the (brief) appearances earlier in the year he didn't look to be at the required standard. If you remember Charlie Austin, Simon Cox, Sam Parkin or other 'good' strikers that have played for us, then they immediately showed they had something about them.
They also weren't under 18s at the time. I wonder how they would have looked had they been thrown on for a 10-minute cameo when they were at U18 level?

So, not writing him off, but am suggesting that he is not ready yet to be thrown into the mix.
Fair enough, maybe that wasn't your intent (and I'm not saying that starting regularly would be good for him or the team). But as a fanbase we are far too quick to write off our home-grown talent, seem to remember much the same "Not ready" "Too lightweight" "Never going to make it at this level" being thrown around about Scott Twine even at the start of this season. Now he's our most valuable asset (in, admittedly, a not very competitive field)
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pauld
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« Reply #43 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 12:29:41 »

Seems a bit ludicrous to say but are we held back due to geography? Given that Reading, Bristol City and probably Southampton and London clubs (specifically Chelsea) are very easy to get to from Swindon, the more elite of kids are much more likely to get a better footballing education at these clubs rather than us. Obviously the occasional gem 'slips through the cracks' but more often than not get hoovered up when it looks like they have a chance of becoming good professionals. (Bogle and the kid that went to Brighton cases in point)

Until we can compete with these clubs its unlikely we are going to become a conveyor belt of talent sadly.
It's not just that though is it? The kids themselves might be more inclined to stay if we could show there is a pathway for them here. Instead year after year we sign 3 or 4 1st year pros who are at that stage understandably not yet quite ready to become 1st team regulars. So they get loaned out to local non-league sides, which makes some sense in terms of experiencing senior football etc. Then are written off by managers not wanting to take a chance on young players and fans who think they must be "shit" because they've been playing at Chippenham. Then find their route to the 1st team blocked by competition winners.
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« Reply #44 on: Wednesday, March 17, 2021, 12:38:21 »

I think will Henry would have come good. Not the biggest but technically good. Was excellent at supermarine and apparently a really good lad as well. Given the total.oiles of shite we had in goal during his tenure and since we could have done a lot worse.
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