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Author Topic: Has he gone yet?  (Read 98940 times)
Peter Venkman
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« Reply #780 on: Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 16:39:41 »

I'd like to say you've been a bit harsh on Kovar but his hesitancy and general rootedness undermined the whole defence.  The only Permiership-esque thing about him in the early days was his footballing skills taking the ball out of the box.

Travers was half the footballer in the box but did everything "goalkeeper" says on the tin.  But the revolving door for keepers has clearly been unsettling for our defence.

I think Camp has an error or two in him but he's finally giving the defence the guidance it sorely needs.  Fingers crossed.
Possibly but I only comment on what I see, if you take Kovar on goalkeeping performances alone not his footwork (which did also cost us a goal or 2) then he is a very limited keeper, he never tried to command his area, he was obviously not taught to play that way and his basic shot stopping especially at the near post was awful as poor as I have seen.

Travers was 1st and foremost a solid goalkeeper, he came to collect crosses, he could shot stop and didnt flap at crosses as Kovar (for example) often did. Maybe his kicking wasn't quite as good but he never put himself or his defence under excess pressure trying to do things with the ball at his feet, he just cleared the ball.

Camp looks a huge improvement already, he has experience and is constantly talking his defenders throughout the game, helping their positioning, again something Kovar didn't ever do.

Camp is known to have a few errors in his locker but by no means to the level that Kovar and Fryer had.

Also Camp has 100% clean sheet record, which is 100% more clean sheets in just 2 games than Kovar did in 21 games.

We were over sold Kovars ability by United and Wellens oversold our defensive ability to United.
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swindonmaniac

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« Reply #781 on: Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 18:14:14 »

No Defence for Kovar whatsoever, in a word USELESS, no worse than that, why do people try to defend the worst keeper in our history ?.
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« Reply #782 on: Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 19:09:04 »

No Defence for Kovar whatsoever, in a word USELESS, no worse than that, why do people try to defend the worst keeper in our history ?.

I think it may have to do with him being pretty young. I think if you blame anyone, it's Wellens pig headedness in choosing a keeper (as No.1 I'll add) that from early on, it was clear he was not ready to be a No.1.

I have no doubt that Kovar should have been coming to Town as a No.2 and being mentored by someone like Camp or (had Town retained him) LMc. Putting him in Paint Pot matches and then testing him in an FA Cup match (depending on oppo) and then a League match or two (again depending on oppo and importance).

The lad was simply mismanaged. Is he actually a shit keeper or was it more to do with the fact he just wasn't ready. Time will tell and I hope one day we're all going "fuck me, that's that woolly fingers lad that played for us once" when he is lifting a trophy or playing higher up than Town are. After all, we know how it goes, everyone else kicks on eventually and achieves... meanwhile, Town continues to plod along in "Underachieversville" and still not realising it's full potential  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #783 on: Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 19:24:37 »

No Defence for Kovar whatsoever, in a word USELESS, no worse than that, why do people try to defend the worst keeper in our history ?.
Agreed. No goalkeeping ability of any note whatsoever.
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swindonmaniac

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« Reply #784 on: Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 19:25:20 »

You are probably correct in what you say, however, regardless, he was responsible for the majority of goals conceded.
Sorry Bamboo, you may disagree but I stand by my previous post and nothing will alter my option of him.
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« Reply #785 on: Wednesday, March 31, 2021, 20:42:05 »

You are probably correct in what you say, however, regardless, he was responsible for the majority of goals conceded.
Sorry Bamboo, you may disagree but I stand by my previous post and nothing will alter my option of him.

No on the contrary, I quite agree on the assessment of his ability. Where I disagree is purely on the "why defend him" part. I think given the parameters, even a dead Ray Charles would be able to see that he wasn't up to it and What I'd Say is that in every game it was a painful case of Here We Go Again...
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #786 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 08:17:55 »

I think it may have to do with him being pretty young. I think if you blame anyone, it's Wellens pig headedness in choosing a keeper (as No.1 I'll add) that from early on, it was clear he was not ready to be a No.1.

I have no doubt that Kovar should have been coming to Town as a No.2 and being mentored by someone like Camp or (had Town retained him) LMc. Putting him in Paint Pot matches and then testing him in an FA Cup match (depending on oppo) and then a League match or two (again depending on oppo and importance).

The lad was simply mismanaged. Is he actually a shit keeper or was it more to do with the fact he just wasn't ready. Time will tell and I hope one day we're all going "fuck me, that's that woolly fingers lad that played for us once" when he is lifting a trophy or playing higher up than Town are. After all, we know how it goes, everyone else kicks on eventually and achieves... meanwhile, Town continues to plod along in "Underachieversville" and still not realising it's full potential  Roll Eyes

I agree with you fella that Kovar should be coming in to get mentored and play in a few Pizza Hut challenge matches etc, but I'm pretty sure Man United are not going to loan a player to a Division 3 club on those terms. They need him to be playing first team games week in and week out. I've no idea about playing clauses etc for loans but I am pretty sure we would not have got him on loan if we were only going to play him in the Zenith Data tournament only and a handful of first team games if the senior keeper gets injured etc.
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« Reply #787 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 08:21:19 »

I agree with you fella that Kovar should be coming in to get mentored and play in a few Pizza Hut challenge matches etc, but I'm pretty sure Man United are not going to loan a player to a Division 3 club on those terms. They need him to be playing first team games week in and week out. I've no idea about playing clauses etc for loans but I am pretty sure we would not have got him on loan if we were only going to play him in the Zenith Data tournament only and a handful of first team games if the senior keeper gets injured etc.

Wells touched on his in some interview somewhere.

Basically a total loan fee is agreed. Then a per game fee is agreed.

Each game played takes x amount off the total.

So if the loan fee was 50k and match fee was 1k. If the loan player plays 50 games he’d effectively be free.
If he played 2 games and sat on our bench he’d cost us 48k
« Last Edit: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 08:23:28 by DV Canio » Logged
Bob's Orange
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« Reply #788 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 08:23:06 »

Wells touched on his in some interview somewhere.

Basically a total loan fee is agreed. Then a per game fee is agreed.

Each game played takes x amount off the total.

So if the loan fee was 50k and match fee was 1k. If the loan player 50 games he’d effectively be free.
If he played 2 games and sat on our bench he’d cost us 48k

Cheers - that makes sense really.
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« Reply #789 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 09:04:15 »

Wellens explained that is the way most of the loans from the Prem clubs are now.  Last year it worked well ie. Benda played so much he effectively was free.  Trouble is when you got a shit player it cost you not to play them.
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« Reply #790 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 09:08:09 »

So the poorer the player, the more you pay for them...  Crying
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« Reply #791 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 09:34:02 »

So the poorer the player, the more you pay for them...  Crying
Higher clubs loan players out to lower clubs on the trust that the lower club will develop the player. So another way of looking at it is the less you develop the player, the more it costs you. That's the quid pro quo.
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #792 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 09:35:51 »

Charlton must be forking out a fair bit for Matt Smith at the moment. He is not getting a look in for them at all.
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« Reply #793 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 09:53:28 »

So the poorer the player, the more you pay for them...  Crying

Yes, although you should not be getting poor players in on loan, why we ended up with someone as woeful as Kovar beggars belief.
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« Reply #794 on: Thursday, April 1, 2021, 09:58:10 »

So the poorer the player, the more you pay for them...  Crying

I guess the angle is more along the lines of the more you play them the cheaper the cost.
Stating the obvious but the clubs loaning out (young players in particular) want them to be playing otherwise what is the point?

Different story altogether if it’s another lower league club trying to get someone off the wage bill.
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