Swindon v Plymouth pre match chat and matchday thread

[pauld]

he wasn't in the game at all to be fair

He didn't have a great game, no. But then nor did any of the others. But if you are serious about keeping hold of a player that you have offered an extension to and claim to be fending off offers for (rather than cashing in while you can), do you sub him off at half time or maybe give him the 1st 20 minutes of the second half to see if he can make a difference? Sends a message

[BambooToTheFuture]

I think with the "young and hungry" is in part they can get a little more "hall pass" time. They do tend to be a little more technically understanding (or at least have time to learn or develop on it) and generally will be in touch with the mindsets of varying players. Also gives a chance for them to learn from their mistakes, and often more quickly. With a manager who is "set in their ways", they might be less inclined to listen to other ideas and stick to what they know. This is fine when it works a bit but when it starts going south, they then seem devoid of alternatives and doubly, appear to become more stubborn to change.

I think and I may be wrong but it's possible that DVCanio means that essentially, gone are the days of a team full of "pie n mash", "big drinkers" and "ard as fackin nails" types of player. Which of course were quite prevalent in the 70s & 80s (and 90s to an extent, or an extension of). That culture just isn't really around in football any more. At least not in the main. Some players could get away with it but the game has changed and adapted. I know you know this.

One issue is, there are obviously still some managers around with that kind of outdated attitude and approach. You know, that "well just get on with it" or "man up" and so on. It just does not work any more.

I don't know how much of that is genuinely a good or bad thing. I think some elements of a "just deal with it" approach are possibly needed for some players, whereas a slightly warmer, more mentoring or pastoral approach is probably better for others. A good manager identifies where those employees need a shoulder or and one who need it less so. I really don't think Sheridan has that in his locker. All that aside though, I don't think he even has the technical tools to pull Town out of this.

In terms of younger manager who probably still has some freshness and worth a new challenge is...Sam Ricketts. Yes...but really, could we do any worse than JS right now? Wellens had a difficult time at Oldham before he came to Town and we gave him a chance. So why not Ricketts? He's only 39/40 (I think) and would be up for it. Even if the remit was purely "keep us up, we'll talk further...get us relegated, you're gone." I'm sure he is keen to right his wrongs from his petered out time at Shrews. Was doing ok for a young manager until this season. I think "doing ok" is probably something we would all accept right now.

 It would be a realistic appointment, considering their aren't a huge number of real options. Unless you want Holloway but some might say that would be very much in the "dinosaur" mold and I don't think it represents a young and fresh manager. I expect several to come back and give me shit for bringing up "my mate SR" but all I ask, is right now, could Town do or get much better?

[pauld]

I’d somewhat suggest working alongside Bobby Robson at Sporting CP, Porto and Barcelona is a much better education for dealing with dressing rooms than Brighton u21s

But then Mourinho and AVB were working at a much higher level of the game without pro experience, and so with bigger egos. Don't think "I was a bag carrier for Bobby Robson" cuts much ice with a senior pro who's asking you to throw your medals on the table. I get that a lack of pro experience can hamper an up and coming manager, but if they're good enough they can overcome that. Mourinho got and earned that respect with his ability as a manager, irrespective of whether he'd played to any level. As have others, many of them far better than the usual carousel of "was a good player so will automatically be a good manager" flops

[THE FLASH]

Well the hope frework that was lit at Ipswich has fizzled out for sure...

What the fuck was that?

I don't know if he's the man for the job...

Pox and Gas more luck than judgement...

Slipping towards the trapdoor.

Players frozen out, others underachieving, shit ones being persisted with. It's poisonous.

One shot on target the whole match at home is frankly embarrassing.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

Has he gone yet?

[DiV]

I think with the "young and hungry" is in part they can get a little more "hall pass" time. They do tend to be a little more technically understanding (or at least have time to learn or develop on it) and generally will be in touch with the mindsets of varying players. Also gives a chance for them to learn from their mistakes, and often more quickly. With a manager who is "set in their ways", they might be less inclined to listen to other ideas and stick to what they know. This is fine when it works a bit but when it starts going south, they then seem devoid of alternatives and doubly, appear to become more stubborn to change.

I think and I may be wrong but it's possible that DVCanio means that essentially, gone are the days of a team full of "pie n mash", "big drinkers" and "ard as fackin nails" types of player. Which of course were quite prevalent in the 70s & 80s (and 90s to an extent, or an extension of). That culture just isn't really around in football any more. At least not in the main. Some players could get away with it but the game has changed and adapted. I know you know this.

One issue is, there are obviously still some managers around with that kind of outdated attitude and approach. You know, that "well just get on with it" or "man up" and so on. It just does not work any more.

I don't know how much of that is genuinely a good or bad thing. I think some elements of a "just deal with it" approach are possibly needed for some players, whereas a slightly warmer, more mentoring or pastoral approach is probably better for others. A good manager identifies where those employees need a shoulder or and one who need it less so. I really don't think Sheridan has that in his locker. All that aside though, I don't think he even has the technical tools to pull Town out of this.

In terms of younger manager who probably still has some freshness and worth a new challenge is...Sam Ricketts. Yes...but really, could we do any worse than JS right now? Wellens had a difficult time at Oldham before he came to Town and we gave him a chance. So why not Ricketts? He's only 39/40 (I think) and would be up for it. Even if the remit was purely "keep us up, we'll talk further...get us relegated, you're gone." I'm sure he is keen to right his wrongs from his petered out time at Shrews. Was doing ok for a young manager until this season. I think "doing ok" is probably something we would all accept right now.

 It would be a realistic appointment, considering their aren't a huge number of real options. Unless you want Holloway but some might say that would be very much in the "dinosaur" mold and I don't think it represents a young and fresh manager. I expect several to come back and give me shit for bringing up "my mate SR" but all I ask, is right now, could Town do or get much better?

My point was a lot less convoluted than that.

Simply put; we should not be hiring managers with 15 years of abject failure behind them. They aren’t going to miraculously come good.

[normy]

Having read back this thread, of very accurate comments, I  also think we're going down.

We pay, or at least I do, to watch good football, passing movements from the back towards goal, and skill and speed in the movement.  Plymouth did that very well today as a team, as did every other team we have played this season.  We haven't really had that kind of play since early season, when Tyler Smith, Jack Payne, and Johnny Smith worked well together with DJ and Caddis.

 I hate the tactics and style now. Forced backwards, harrassed pass back to keeper, long hoof, lose possession, allow penetration up towards our penalty area, scramble the ball back if we're lucky or they have a near miss or we make a mistake. Few accurate passes and many hoofed long balls.

I'm afraid I won't renew my ST if I have to watch shit like this. It's probbly too late to avoid the drop, and I have little hope that the manager will be sacked, although you never know...

 

[Flashheart]

My point was a lot less convoluted than that.

Simply put; we should not be hiring managers with 15 years of abject failure behind them. They aren’t going to miraculously come good.

My thoughts exactly.

With experienced managers at this level you know that are average at best - hence why they are at this level. They often also turn out to be very poor.

A young manager might also turn out to be poor, but there's also the cancer of unearthing a gem.

[Shrivvy Road]

My point was a lot less convoluted than that.

Simply put; we should not be hiring managers with 15 years of abject failure behind them. They aren’t going to miraculously come good.

I agree, also the main difference apart from club size between them was that Mourinho wanted to be a manager and as such created a persona and carried it off. Williams made it very very clear he didn't want to be a manager and was effectively blackmailed with a long contract

[tans]

Amazes me how dinosaurs like Sheridan still get fucking jobs.

Amazes me even more that chairmen think they will br any good!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

It says something, though, that after a complete shit show of half of a season we’re only a point or 2 away from the drop zone. Any decent, or half decent, manager could get these players playing well enough to skidaddle up the table.

Under normal circumstances Sheridan a) wouldn’t have been appointed in the first place and, b) certainly wouldn’t still be here after such abject failure.

I’m trying to get my head round behind any logical reason why he’s still here. If Power wants to remain charge he won’t want to get relegated (I presume), if there are new owners waiting in the wings neither will they. No sane person can believe Sheridan is going to turn this round.

If what many of us think - that we can expect new owners - why don’t they insist Sheridan goes now instead of waiting til they take over with, maybe, only a handful of games left and by which time we may well be terminal anyway.

[donkey]

Listening to the interview with AH at the end, it was remarkable to hear JS's over-reaction to the question about playing Otomoye given he hadn't trained with the team. AH even gave him a potential answer mentioning a manager's hunch. AH was right to ask why JS why he picked him, an honest answer would have been nice.

Mrs Donkey was also listening to JS for the first time and said she didn't like him as he took no responsibility and just blamed the players for the result.

[skiptotheLouMacari]

It says something, though, that after a complete shit show of half of a season we’re only a point or 2 away from the drop zone. Any decent, or half decent, manager could get these players playing well enough to skidaddle up the table.

Under normal circumstances Sheridan a) wouldn’t have been appointed in the first place and, b) certainly wouldn’t still be here after such abject failure.


I’m trying to get my head round behind any logical reason why he’s still here. If Power wants to remain charge he won’t want to get relegated (I presume), if there are new owners waiting in the wings neither will they. No sane person can believe Sheridan is going to turn this round.

If what many of us think - that we can expect new owners - why don’t they insist Sheridan goes now instead of waiting til they take over with, maybe, only a handful of games left and by which time we may well be terminal anyway.







Absolutely, if your shit enough in this league this season to get relegated then there is something wrong. 4 of the current bottom 9 will go down so it's not over if you pull your finger out.
Do we have potential new owners waiting or is it all wishful thinking? I just don't see investors putting money in this year due to the nature of our position, you wouldn't buy a league 1 club showing all the signs of relegation. Purely wait until next season and start afresh with your own team in place and pay a fraction of the price.
Something is fundamentally wrong at Swindon, rotten and has Caddis seen it and thought fuck this I'm off, Is that why Doughty jumped ship in such fashion? Including all those from last year who didn't re-sign with the champions?? It doesn't make sense and we will never know the truth unless a player or backroom staff writes a biography and spills the beans.

[Batch]

Been thinking about the game a bit.

After 20 minutes we were rubbish.
We changed it, which needed doing, and we were just as rubbish.

Are we over estimating player ability? Or are we low on confidence? Or are we clueless as to the style we are supposed to be playing and lacking direction?

I actually think all 3 at the momen. Though its hard to pin player ability down while we are a bit of a shambles in formation - so maybe I should retract that.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have switched formation to 5-3-1-1 (?!) when chasing the game, but there you go.

[Matchworn Shirts]

It doesn't make sense and we will never know the truth unless a player or backroom staff writes a biography and spills the beans.

Currans' would make interesting reading