Furloughed workers on here

[RobertT]

I know there are plenty of examples of the good Unions have done and the ill they have avoided for people.  Having said that, and knowing it may not be every person in the Union or every Union, I'm not a fan.  Relying on a Union suggests you've fucked up the Govt. and Regulation (my personal view) - if I have an issue with my treatment beyond that, and beyond the HR policies I accept as an employee when I join, I have the right to fuck off or grow bigger balls than I have and start my own business (Puns accepted).

[Ardiles]

I can't agree with that.  The raison d'être of collective bargaining is to level the playing field in employer/employee negotiations.  Without it, those negotiations will always be so one sided (gorilla vs a hamster) as to be meaningless.  Of course, you're able to seek better terms with another employer if you don't like those offered by your current employer, but that's still like the hamster finding the nicest gorilla to talk with.
Which ever gorilla you talk to, it's still going to be way bigger than you.

[RobertT]

It's a personal viewpoint based on personal experiences.

I've seen a lot of self interest from those in positions within Unions - not just trying to keep the jobs for the boys either, actively working against other Union members for their own self interest but using their position of power within a Union (plenty of occasions and plenty of people over many years).

I've done alright by myself thank you without ever needing someone to do my talking for me - I know, this one really doesn't chime with some of my more Progressive/Social views.  I've never been one for the left and right labels though.

[jayohaitchenn]

It's a personal viewpoint based on personal experiences.

Experiences like the 8 hour working day, paid annual leave, paid parental leave and the weekend?

[horlock07]

Not in my case , was an Area Secretary for 4 years, good relationship with the employer, but we supported our members first and would always support those who paid for our services (and sometimes those who didn't if we were feeling in a twaddly leftist mood)

Think it all depends on the union, the issue and the personalties involved.

I had a couple of years as a Unison steward in an LPA, not because I had any great urge to do it, more because if we hadn't stepped in the branch was basically going to fold.

During that time we had a Chief Exec at the Council who managed to get into a stand up row with a disabled member of staff in front of the virtually the whole staff threatening to sack him for using a disabled parking space at the Council offices and that was sorted and apology given due to the union.  In addition this was at the stage in the early/mid 00's when bizarrely we were in conflict with the government regarding pay and conditions (despite Unison funding the Labour Party?!?) again via union action the rights of our members was sorted.

However, where it didn't work was at a dispute at local level whereby said Chief Exec decided overnight and with no consultation to arbitrarily change many staffs T&C by removing their Essential Car User Allowance (basically an allowance you are paid as an employee to bring a car to work and have it available for use associated with your job). As this basically consisted in a drop in salary for those involved, we immediately voted to take all personal vehicle off the road meaning that the Council had to hire vehicles every day for staff to use. After a bit of tooing and froing and some crap publicity for the council the Chieg Exec backed down and all was well again.

The issue was, as part of that we sought help from the regional office in Manchester who basically refused to send anyone up to advise us and an officer said to my (and others faces) that as those involved were professional grades and not female workers or minimum wage we were not considered a priority for them to resource, despite us paying our subs like everyone else.

I resigned shortly afterwards and have had nothing to do with the union in subsequent jobs, although they are a very useful thing for many.

[tans]

Unison were ok for me in my current job, sorted out some issues i had.

Fire brigades union in my old job (diff employer) was a different story mind, got told my t & c’s for my specific role were being changed and the union rep basically told me ‘they can do what they like’. £27 a month for that

Needless to say i pulled my membership after that

[BambooToTheFuture]

Blimey Horlock, that CEO sounds like a complete tosspot.

For me, I've been part of a Union twice. One when I was at an employer that had zero representation at the Union end but also had zero HR too. Basically a very shit employer (life choices yadda yadda). Well one of the owners was the "HR Dept" so that tells you everything. When I mentioned about a Union and any pension (wasn't standard at the time) to them they scoffed. Said they had a form of Stakeholder pension but and I quote "we only really give that to people who have been here a long time", their staff turnover, I later found out was largely very fluid. Apart from two employees everyone who worked there had not been there or stayed longer than 2 years. There were many issues with that place, like paying employees off the record when they had a dispute or threatened to take legal action. With regards to asking about unions the response was "Well we don't really do that kind of thing here haha".

In that case, signing up to a union of my own accord was really quite helpful as well as some great advice from my sister (a HR Director).

The other time I was part of a union probably came due to the previous employment experience, yet there really was no need for them in many regards. The company gave annual pay rises as well as quarterly incremental rises too. To boot with a high end pension and a sick pay scheme that was available at full pay for a year and then at half pay afterwards. So covered most for job security. Any "concerns" were usually negligible (people always want a little more) and most people just attended union meetings to get out of work for a while. Working conditions could have been better at times but HR were pretty on the money for any disputes or regarding staff relations and so on.

Two very contrasting employments that couldn't be any further apart. In regard to unions I would say the obvious....when you don't need them they appear to be a white elephant but when you do, they can be quite useful. Certainly withdrew my membership from the latter one, purely because all the benefits included in the job were pretty attractive. Other than getting out of work for an afternoon, the union in that instance didn't make any impact.

[Simon Pieman]

Good luck Si, hopefully doesn't come to the worst case scenario there.

An unexpected scenario. I got offered the most junior of roles in the new structure, with a £7.5k salary reduction. I've worked there for 7.5 years and I'm currently in a management position.

Needless to say I declined it.

[horlock07]

An unexpected scenario. I got offered the most junior of roles in the new structure, with a £7.5k salary reduction. I've worked there for 7.5 years and I'm currently in a management position.

Needless to say I declined it.

That's shitty, I assume 7.5 yrs will at least mean a half decent payoff?

[Simon Pieman]

That's shitty, I assume 7.5 yrs will at least mean a half decent payoff?

Statutory redundancy paid at the end of my 3 month notice period. Accrued holiday must be used during notice period too.

[Jimmy HaveHave]

An unexpected scenario. I got offered the most junior of roles in the new structure, with a £7.5k salary reduction. I've worked there for 7.5 years and I'm currently in a management position.

Needless to say I declined it.

That sucks and just proves they don't give a sh*t about their work force. I could have applied for voluntary reduncy ive been there over 30 years so a good pay off but as I'm mid 50's it would be hard to find a decent paying job so I opted for security for the time being

[Batch]

Statutory redundancy paid at the end of my 3 month notice period. Accrued holiday must be used during notice period too.

Sorry to hear that.

Good luck in the job hunt.

[pauld]

Statutory redundancy paid at the end of my 3 month notice period. Accrued holiday must be used during notice period too.

That's really shit, Si. Good luck finding something new/better.

[horlock07]

Statutory redundancy paid at the end of my 3 month notice period. Accrued holiday must be used during notice period too.

Bastards!

[pauld]

This got me thinking - there's likely to be quite a few folks getting laid off over the next 12 months or so and people on here aren't going to be immune to that. Is there any mileage in a sub-section for jobs listings etc? Helping each other out when we know of jobs that are going? The company I work at have 3 vacancies they've just set live (Client liaison and product support roles in a transaction processing company, if those sound relevant) which I doubt would help Si but may be of relevance to someone else on here that I don't know about. I'd be happy to pass on deatails if anyone is interested, PM me. But perhaps might be worth a sub-section to do in a more structured way? Or it could be a complete waste of time?