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pauld

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« Reply #3585 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 14:23:58 »

Of course it won't. B&B. Bodgers and bluffers all of them.
But but .... private sector efficiencies .... outsourcing to improve quality ..... world beating ..... we are now paying the price for a slavish ideological commitment to privatising even core public health functions in lives
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horlock07

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« Reply #3586 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 14:25:40 »

But but .... private sector efficiencies .... outsourcing to improve quality ..... world beating ..... we are now paying the price for a slavish ideological commitment to privatising even core public health functions in lives

I don't understand why there is this obsession with it being 'world beating', most people would be happy if it just fucking existed and worked?
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pauld

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« Reply #3587 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 14:30:43 »

I don't understand why there is this obsession with it being 'world beating', most people would be happy if it just fucking existed and worked?
It's all part of the petty nationalist British exceptionalism that led to the govt ignoring WHO advice and the evidence of what was happening elsewhere in the world and why we now have over 60,000 dead.
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StfcRusty

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« Reply #3588 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 14:53:46 »

It's all part of the petty nationalist British exceptionalism that led to the govt ignoring WHO advice and the evidence of what was happening elsewhere in the world and why we now have over 60,000 dead.

To be fair, I think itís English exceptionalism. The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish donít appear to be quite so full of hubris as our lot.
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pauld

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« Reply #3589 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:04:16 »

To be fair, I think itís English exceptionalism. The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish donít appear to be quite so full of hubris as our lot.
Fair point
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Sippo
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« Reply #3590 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:06:37 »

With it Bank Holiday monday, it is an ideal time to shut all shops and all work (apart from emergency services) for the three days.

Then let's see the count.

Or let's just let everyone fuck off to the beach.
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« Reply #3591 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:16:53 »

I don't understand why there is this obsession with it being 'world beating', most people would be happy if it just fucking existed and worked?
I have to say I find this kind of spurious posturing, which is quite irrelevant to the rather serious job in hand, to be vomit-inducing (not lich) and likely premature, anyway.

Do we think the likes of Edison, the Curie siblings or Alexander Fleming postured so needily?
« Last Edit: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:19:05 by RedRag » Logged
pauld

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« Reply #3592 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:25:02 »

Do we think the likes of Edison, the Curie siblings or Alexander Fleming postured so needily?
It's a very good point given that so much of science these days depends on international collaboration. For example, the "Oxford" vaccine project actually involves scientists collaborating from over 60 different countries, as the scientists themselves are keen to point out but the media and politcians continually play down.
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Ardiles

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« Reply #3593 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:29:41 »

To be fair, I think itís English exceptionalism. The Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish donít appear to be quite so full of hubris as our lot.

Spot on.  I don't think 'British Exceptionalism' exists, to tell the truth.  It's a very English thing.
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pauld

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« Reply #3594 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:38:43 »

Astonishing report in the usually slavishly pro-Johnson Telegraph: Britain could have avoided three quarters of the Covid19 deaths if we had gone into lockdown a week earlier AND had a shorter and so less economically damaging lockdown. The govt's failure to act, always doing too little too late, has been catastrophic both economically and in terms of the death toll

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/earlier-lockdown-could-have-prevented-three-quarters-uk-coronavirus/
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horlock07

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« Reply #3595 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:41:43 »

It's a very good point given that so much of science these days depends on international collaboration. For example, the "Oxford" vaccine project actually involves scientists collaborating from over 60 different countries, as the scientists themselves are keen to point out but the media and politcians continually play down.

Talking of scientists, I suspect this narrative we are drifting towards of suggesting that the scientists got the science wrong and provided piss poor advice that the government followed will fall on its arse when the government learn that rule 1 of being a scientist, as with any professional role where one has to justify things and be subjected to peer review is to make sure you keep rigorous records and can show your working.
« Last Edit: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:43:28 by horlock07 » Logged
horlock07

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« Reply #3596 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:47:09 »

Spot on.  I don't think 'British Exceptionalism' exists, to tell the truth.  It's a very English thing.

https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/
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donkey
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« Reply #3597 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 15:59:03 »

Astonishing report in the usually slavishly pro-Johnson Telegraph: Britain could have avoided three quarters of the Covid19 deaths if we had gone into lockdown a week earlier AND had a shorter and so less economically damaging lockdown. The govt's failure to act, always doing too little too late, has been catastrophic both economically and in terms of the death toll

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/earlier-lockdown-could-have-prevented-three-quarters-uk-coronavirus/

This would be akin to finding a report in Pravda in the 1930s criticising Stalin.  
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pauld

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« Reply #3598 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 16:30:55 »

Johnson in "actually doing the right thing" shock. OK, he tried not to and the U-turn was only forced on him by sustained public and political pressure, but credit where it's due, better to do the right thing eventually than not at all

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1263494074365067264

NB this is a good example of exactly why the idea that the govt should only be subject to scrutiny *after* the crisis is over is wrong. Sometimes that scrutiny can limit the damage of a horrendous decision and cause govt to reconsider when left to their own devices they'd make a massive bolllocks
« Last Edit: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 16:34:56 by pauld » Logged
horlock07

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« Reply #3599 on: Thursday, May 21, 2020, 16:37:16 »

Johnson in "actually doing the right thing" shock. OK, he tried not to and the U-turn was only forced on him by sustained public and political pressure, but credit where it's due, better to do the right thing eventually than not at all

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1263494074365067264

NB this is a good example of exactly why the idea that the govt should only be subject to scrutiny *after* the crisis is over is wrong. Sometimes that scrutiny can limit the damage of a horrendous decision and cause govt to reconsider when left to their own devices they'd make a massive bolllocks

One thing this crisis has shown is that whilst politicians hate making U turns, the public are generally unbothered about such things if the right thing is being done.
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