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Author Topic: Bolton & Bury continuing fiasco.  (Read 25175 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #45 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:54:05 »

Sums it up really

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kirky69

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« Reply #46 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 09:50:51 »

As fans of a lower league club i am sure we can all identify with what all Bury fans must be going through this morning. A range of emotions including frustration, anger and disbelief, although mainly absolute devastation that the team you support is no longer in existence. Football is an institution, a religion, a community activity and most of all, for many of us, a family activity,  something that has passed through the generations, grandfather to father, to sons and daughters. It's what we do every Saturday, or at least every other Saturday and sometimes in midweek. It's something we think about, talk about, write about, even tweet about. It helps shape our lives, our values and who we are. So to have it taken away will, for many, be like the death of a loved one - in as much as their lives will continue, but with a massive void and feeling of emptiness.

The blame lies with many:

The 20 original members of the Premier League for breaking away from the Football League, creating a tier 2 system
Sky TV  for the obscene amount of money paid to the PL, thus fuelling similarly obscene player wage inflation
Premier League clubs for not recognising the importance of the football pyramid by agreeing to a more even distribution of funds through solidarity payments to the 72 EFL clubs
Excessive parachute payments to clubs relegated from the PL, thus creating a further divide in revenue between those clubs and the remainder of the Championship, causing further player wage inflation further down the pyramid
Championship clubs for chasing "the dream" of promotion to the PL,  by over stretching budgets to match the clubs benefitting from parachute payments
EFL governance is weak, the Fit and Proper Persons Test is a joke -Steve Dale is prime evidence of this - and FFP is not working as owners find ways to work around it
Fans wanting their clubs to chase the dream, demanding owners overspend
All of this encourages unfit, unscrupulous and frankly in some cases disinterested owners putting clubs at severe risk

Bury's demise is a disaster for Bury fans. I hope the legacy is one of change which prevents this happening to other clubs.
My fear is like Boris Johnson and his right wing agenda, that irrespective of the consequences on the masses, the self interest of the wealthy will always prevail. The rich, in this case the big 6, will get richer and the poor, leagues 1 & 2, will get poorer and many will cease to exist.

RIP Bury.

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pauld
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« Reply #47 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 10:30:50 »

Spot on kirky. The League and FA should hang their heads in shame, the big 6 will be rubbing their hands at the continuing weakening of the lower leagues. Steve Dale and Ken Anderson should never be able to show their faces in public again.
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horlock07

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« Reply #48 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 10:52:59 »

A small glint of light for Bolton supporters...

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/2047163-bolton-liquidation-put-on-hold#
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singingiiiffy

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« Reply #49 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 10:54:40 »

Spot on kirky. The League and FA should hang their heads in shame, the big 6 will be rubbing their hands at the continuing weakening of the lower leagues. Steve Dale and Ken Anderson should never be able to show their faces in public again.

really? very much doubt that.

The obvious rule would be sustainable caps but we have them in place

Quote
Clubs in the League 1 and League 2 operate within a Spending Constraint framework termed Salary Cost Management Protocol (SMCP). SCMP limits spending on player wages to a percentage of club Turnover. In League 1 clubs can spend a maximum of 60% of their turnover on wages - in League 2, the limit is 55%. There are no restrictions (in themselves) on the amount a club can lose or spend on transfer fees.

Initially introduced into League 2 in 2004/5 for guidance purposes, sanctions for breaching the SCMP thresholds were introduced during the 2011/12 season, with Swindon the first club to be sanctioned under the rules.

The process is interactive with clubs providing the Football League with projections for the spending for the coming season. During the season the clubs provide regular updates on their Turnover and wage bill. Any club that is forecasting a wage spend within 5% of the figure will be scrutinised more closely. Where a club is on course to exceed the limits, the Football League will apply a Transfer Embargo.

How did Bury spend so big year on year without this being scrutinised. its been flagged on here for years with the old experienced they kept signing. I understand that an owner can pump money into the club to increase turnover and help with wages but its obvious this wasn't happening?

edit * a bit more...

Quote
the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 10:56:41 by singingiiiffy » Logged
pauld
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« Reply #50 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:04:00 »

The obvious rule would be sustainable caps but we have them in place

How did Bury spend so big year on year without this being scrutinised. its been flagged on here for years with the old experienced they kept signing. I understand that an owner can pump money into the club to increase turnover and help with wages but its obvious this wasn't happening?

You can have all the rules you want, but when there's no transparency and no will to enforce them, they're just bits of paper. Same with the Fit and Proper Persons test, it's a joke, because it's designed to be. Bear in mind that it is clubs (and hence ultimately the owners of clubs) who vote for changes to the league rules, you're asking people, some of whom are trustworthy and some of whom are not to the extent of outright criminality, to vote for tighter regulation and scrutiny of how they do business. Never going to happen, needs an independent regulator with some actual teeth
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RobertT

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« Reply #51 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:48:18 »

UNder Di Canio we were placed under a transfer embargo.  He was angry with the board because we had voluntarily updated our % wages to turnover forecasts after signing some players and had breached the cap.

I often defend Power, because he plays within the rules provided, but one area of governance that could be toughened up easily is to enforce full account disclosure regardless of a clubs turnover (which is what dictates the need to produce full accounts for a business).  They should also have to provide half yearly updates going into January that are made public.

I honestly believe the PL is not even remotely scratched by this - the days of any sort of reliance on the pyramid have gone.  The reality is they could play in empty stadiums and absorb it.  They could play in a different country every week and absorb it.  We have to shift our reality - whether or not they fully separate, they don't need the game we watch anymore.  The football we watch probably needs to shift - we need to be in a place where any club could "survive" without a benefactor in charge, but how do you do that?  The best way is an equal distribution of funds from the central pool provided by the EFL, regardless of league position or league played.  The clubs won't vote for that, so someone has to take control at the top.  Next, we probably have to accept cutting the PL free and replacing promotion with some sort of cyclical bid system based on a combination of performance and ability to fund being in that division - if they outbid the bottom teams in the PL we have a swap occur.  Does it ruin the spirit of the game, yes, but it's ruining it already.  Not just for those almost in reach who never quite make it, but clubs this far down as well.  We will adjust to the PL almost being like a different sport, and then the PL clubs can split themselves up into a European League if they fancy.  Let them get on with it, we can have Division One back and get back to the sport we remember, just without some of the names that used to play it.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:58:54 by RobertT » Logged
Batch
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« Reply #52 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:51:48 »

An overreaction maybe, but can football sustain 4 professional leagues long term?
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pauld
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« Reply #53 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:59:53 »

An overreaction maybe, but can football sustain 4 professional leagues long term?
It currently has 5 and a half - all bar a few of the teams in the Conference are professional now. And quite a few in Conference N/S
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RobertT

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« Reply #54 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 12:02:13 »

An overreaction maybe, but can football sustain 4 professional leagues long term?

Yes, players at this level may not earn a fortune, but they earn above the national average.  It requires a complete reset of the game though - hence suggesting we cut the PL adrift.
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singingiiiffy

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« Reply #55 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 12:21:12 »

Remember we are also adding more and more unsustainable women teams to the list
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4D
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« Reply #56 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 12:52:38 »

I'd like to see the premier league shipped out to the far east, three divisions here with the Championship being the top tier. Bring football back.
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Red Frog
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« Reply #57 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 12:54:41 »

Bury Great Britain. Good summary of the last twelve hours.
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« Reply #58 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 12:59:12 »

How did Bury spend so big year on year without this being scrutinised. its been flagged on here for years with the old experienced they kept signing. I understand that an owner can pump money into the club to increase turnover and help with wages but its obvious this wasn't happening?

Indeed, here are just 3 times I have mentioned about their precarious financial state so how the fuck did the FL/FA allow them to go on like it when everyone could see it.

Bury have been gambling for a few years now with short term high interest loans etc, it is going to end in tears.
And it did.


Bury were in lots of financial problems not too long ago taking out loans based upon promotions etc that nearly cost them heavily when they were relegated last season.

Pretty sure they are living well beyond their means this season again, Maynard, Mayer, Danns and Murphy all on high wages for this division and 3 loanees on decent wages as well at their parent clubs Rangers, Sheff Utd and Blackburn.
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swindonmaniac

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« Reply #59 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 13:05:57 »

Indeed, here are just 3 times I have mentioned about their precarious financial state so how the fuck did the FL/FA allow them to go on like it when everyone could see it.
And it did.

On that basis who do you think maybe next ?.
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