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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey


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« on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 15:19:10 »

With Mansfield sacking Flitcroft after failing to get promotion with a reported £3m budget, shouldn’t we have done much better with a, supposed, £2-2.5m budget?

Can’t attach any blame to Wellens for this but, Flitcroft again, and Brown both managed to squander what is a decent budget for L2.

Poor recruitment by both - maybe Brown especially guilty of such a poorly balanced squad and a Flitcroft for some rank poor signings.
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« Reply #1 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 15:26:59 »

With Mansfield sacking Flitcroft after failing to get promotion with a reported £3m budget, shouldn’t we have done much better with a, supposed, £2-2.5m budget?


Yep. Brown did VERY poorly for what he had at his disposal.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #2 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 15:47:11 »

Firstly I wouldn't take anything that Power says as factual, other than his initial stated aim of reducing the wage bill and then relegation to Div 4 costing so necessitating cuts to funding.

You can get a an idea of budget by looking at the agents fees....

Secondly no manager gets them all right, Flitcroft's recruitment, given circumstances wasn't particularly bad... perhaps Robertson, a waste but Lancashire a bit unlucky with injury.... we were around auto when he went lame.   Brown's  reflected a budget cut.... which led to an over dependence on loans, whereas Flitcroft could use them a bit more as extras.... like H Smith and Gordon.

Thirdly the present Power approach does seem to include leaving a bit of budget spare for January to have a look at what is required.

Fourthly, Div 4 is pretty even, the likes of Accy and Wycombe have shown you can succeed with a small budget, whereas Notts and Chesterfield have had so say similar to ours and gone down.   It should be noted that Mansfield achieved their highest finish for 17 years, so Radford's investment allowed at last that progress.

We're a bit different having just had our lowest finish since 83/84.... if as stated Wellens gets a Brown type budget then it will be very much down, to him and Jewell whether we go Accy or Notts.... no guarantees in Div 4.
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Panda Paws
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« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 16:12:17 »

Firstly I wouldn't take anything that Power says as factual, other than his initial stated aim of reducing the wage bill and then relegation to Div 4 costing so necessitating cuts to funding.


So in a nutshell, pick and choose what you believe to fit your chosen narrative. That could catch on.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 16:21:04 »

So in a nutshell, pick and choose what you believe to fit your chosen narrative. That could catch on.

No what you do is look at how things of panned out over a period of time and apply a bit of historical analysis, you can then start to see patterns and and get a picture of what has been going on.

Of course, it doesn't mean it's 100% right, but often does back up opinions.... for example, it's my opinion that we've done badly in cups in recent years, so no great surprise that the bit of work on goalscorers, reveals nobody has scored 10 in the last 25 years.

These patterns and pictures then beg some aetiological analysis... wherein lies some of the fun of being a fan.
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Paolo69


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« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 16:52:22 »

No what you do is look at how things of panned out over a period of time and apply a bit of historical analysis, you can then start to see patterns and and get a picture of what has been going on.

Of course, it doesn't mean it's 100% right, but often does back up opinions.... for example, it's my opinion that we've done badly in cups in recent years, so no great surprise that the bit of work on goalscorers, reveals nobody has scored 10 in the last 25 years.

These patterns and pictures then beg some aetiological analysis... wherein lies some of the fun of being a fan.

Pretty sure Panda's synopsis is more accurate than any of your aetiological analysis Reg. Sorry!

If we use your example of cup goalscorers, does this take into account players moving on from virtually all clubs much more quickly these days or the fact that there's not endless midweek replays to decide the winner? The game's changed so you're effectively comparing apples with pears.
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RobertT


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« Reply #6 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 16:59:35 »

I prefer Apples.  Power will only fund Carrots though.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #7 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:06:00 »

Pretty sure Panda's synopsis is more accurate than any of your aetiological analysis Reg. Sorry!

If we use your example of cup goalscorers, does this take into account players moving on from virtually all clubs much more quickly these days or the fact that there's not endless midweek replays to decide the winner? The game's changed so you're effectively comparing apples with pears.

It's a fair point about replays, which were binned off in the LC in the early noughties, thus denying an opportunity for more scorers, but they just about remain i the FA Cup... further some on the list like Shearer and White, in R1 and 2 never got the opportunity to stack up goals v non leaguers, and were about in the days of similar movement to now. Therefore comparisons are a legitimate guide...

Similarly, the agents fees list shows us that having finished 13th, 10 of the clubs above us paid out more to agents at point of recruitment, which may indicate acquiring a perceived higher grade of player, that 2 who spent less, finished above us shows it's not a perfect corellation, but again a guide to providing answers.
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Paolo69


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« Reply #8 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:26:30 »

It's a fair point about replays, which were binned off in the LC in the early noughties, thus denying an opportunity for more scorers, but they just about remain i the FA Cup... further some on the list like Shearer and White, in R1 and 2 never got the opportunity to stack up goals v non leaguers, and were about in the days of similar movement to now. Therefore comparisons are a legitimate guide...

Similarly, the agents fees list shows us that having finished 13th, 10 of the clubs above us paid out more to agents at point of recruitment, which may indicate acquiring a perceived higher grade of player, that 2 who spent less, finished above us shows it's not a perfect corellation, but again a guide to providing answers.

No way did players in the Shearer/White era move as regularly as they do now but agreed a few players of the era of the top two leagues did miss out on a few cup games. So even bigger apples and pears to compare then.

IMO the agent fees list could show anything you want it to show. Obviously you've managed to work it into your narrative. I'm sure we're all shocked.
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Panda Paws
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« Reply #9 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:39:27 »

No what you do is look at how things of panned out over a period of time and apply a bit of historical analysis, you can then start to see patterns and and get a picture of what has been going on.

Of course, it doesn't mean it's 100% right, but often does back up opinions.... for example, it's my opinion that we've done badly in cups in recent years, so no great surprise that the bit of work on goalscorers, reveals nobody has scored 10 in the last 25 years.

These patterns and pictures then beg some aetiological analysis... wherein lies some of the fun of being a fan.

You've literally typed that you believe nothing that Power says other than the things he says that back your narrative...?
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« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:43:55 »

Every... fucking... thread.
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horlock07


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« Reply #11 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:44:54 »

Firstly I wouldn't take anything that Power says as factual,

 
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #12 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:47:01 »

IMO the agent fees list could show anything you want it to show. Obviously you've managed to work it into your narrative. I'm sure we're all shocked.
Any budget/finanical comments can be spun to fit any narrative TBH and as we know some are far better at that than others!

Town budget cut....Power fed up and thinking about moving on.
Town budget raised....Power fed up being in this division, trying to get us promoted before selling up.
Town budget stays the same....Power fed up and won't put any extra money in.
Agent fees high...we are paying far too much for average players in agents fees.
Agent fees low...we aren't paying enough to attract the right players.
Agent fees the same....we can't compete with the bigger teams in attracting the better players with higher agent fees.

etc etc

According to the Mansfield forum their budget is likely to be cut next season from a figure said to be £4.5m this season, Flitcroft had a budget cut from the £5m budget Evans had the previous season.

Whatever our budget or anyone elses this coming season I hope we have enough to scrape together a decent side mixed with some experience, some good prospects and some loans. That is all I want. Players who want to play for the club and make us competitive again.

Also just because we haven't heard of a certain player does mean he is automatically shit and visa versa...if he is a well known name then he is not going to automatically make us better. Look at Notts County...similarly look at Tranmere at the other end of the table.

Some players fit clubs, some clubs fit players, some manager styles fit players etc etc

It would be pointless Lincoln signing Doughty as they lump the ball over midfield rather than playing through it which is why they have players the size and build of Bostwick in the side, play breakers not play makers.

I would like to think that Power ISNT telling porkies when it comes to budgets and that he is backing up Wellens in the transfer market as he has done with all his managers previously. Why would he lie when he says we will be a top 7 budget next season and getting fans hopes up just to give Wellens a bottom 7 budget? doesn't make any sense.

Fans aren't stupid, they know when the club sign a cheap player who can just do the job (McCourt) compared to a decent player who we can build a side around (Doughty), we can tell when we replace a decent player with somebody shit in the same position.

What would Power gain in telling us we have a decent budget then not delivering it? nothing, in fact quite the opposite.

Also Power will pay fees for signings, many of our signings cost us money rather than arriving on frees.

Yes the fees may sound exaggerated such as £300k for Woolery and £400k for Vigs but I expect those fees are made up with promotion clauses/sell ons etc so they are "best case scenario" fees not basic fee like they used to be in the old days.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey


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« Reply #13 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:49:24 »

There are only 2 ways of looking at it.

Either Power is lying about the budget or the managers since, and including, Luke have been fucking useless.

Tbh, a budget of £2-2.5m should get you a PO spot.

I’d imagine the relegated clubs, bar Rochdale probably, will be well funded. Strong league next season.
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #14 on: Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 17:53:22 »

I’d imagine the relegated clubs, bar Rochdale probably, will be well funded. Strong league next season.
Plymouth and Bradford will be but Scunthorpe and Walsall don't have 2 pennies to rub together.

Orient and Salford will both be well backed though I would think.
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Because I chose to play the fool in a six-piece band
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What a waste! What a waste!
Rock n Roll don't mind.
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