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Author Topic: Exeter City v Swindon Town official match day thread  (Read 42639 times)
RedRag

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« Reply #285 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 13:58:55 »

The decline though is only to be expected, Power has always been up front about the need for sustainability, and the budget he inherited having to be reduced. So we're now about where you'd expect, a mid table Div 4 side who could have a shot at the PO's.... if we could get a decent run of say 6 wins in 10 games that sort of thing.
We have the third highest average gate in League Two.

Despite playing at that level and without the bigger away support of away followings in League One, we still average higher than TEN clubs at that level.

All with above average admission charges

Most of us would expect higher than mid table League Two, hypothetically having a crack at the Play offs.  A great deal higher.
« Last Edit: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 14:01:47 by RedRag » Logged
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #286 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 14:46:02 »

We have the third highest average gate in League Two.

Despite playing at that level and without the bigger away support of away followings in League One, we still average higher than TEN clubs at that level.

All with above average admission charges

Most of us would expect higher than mid table League Two, hypothetically having a crack at the Play offs.  A great deal higher.

But many of the sides we're competing against, will be spending beyond their means or be funded by wealthy individuals.

Look at Oldham, on the same points as us.... recently the players were threatening to strike due to unpaid wages and HMRC have sniffed around.... they're almost certainly spending money they haven't got, in order to be at our level. Personally I'll take being financially stable in Div 4 above being financially unstable in Div 3.

There is an element of our fan base who think we're too big for Div 4, based on history.... but we're not that sort of club any longer.
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« Reply #287 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 14:50:11 »

I think we can agree that we all want (a relative level of) success, it just seems that a huge proportion of the social media twits would rather see us lash money up the wall and ruin ourselves than be more self sufficient.
I argee things are not too good, but they could be worse and a bit more of a balance could be struck to try and get us back to League 1
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« Reply #288 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 15:10:17 »

We shouldn't need to overspend to at least be challenging in the playoffs in this division. We're a big fish in this small pond.
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« Reply #289 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 15:18:05 »

I suppose we aren't that far away from them, though recent performances make it feel like we are.

A couple of good results needed starting Saturday. I think we are at a critical juncture already, one that's hard to turn around if it goes the wrong way.
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RobertT

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« Reply #290 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 16:04:15 »

I think Brown had Diagouraga and Doughty presented to him and gambled they would be worth blowing most of his budget, because after they came we struggled to get a centre half of any level for a while.  It left him with slots uncovered and relying on players like Taylor who he was gambling had another full season in the tank.  Unfortunately Doughty and Diagouraga have not been fit or available at the same time so far reallly and Taylor has not been the player of last season.  He has basically handcuffed himself with formations by having so many central midfielders and not really much out wide of note.  On top of that he was probably banking on Richards being enough up top, but he is another player who is now looking like he is either spent at this level or a victim of the necessary formations.  I like players like him but I do think his career is over, his general play looks slower, not just physical, but also in thought.  That quick instinct carries players like him and it doesn’t seem there.now.

Never been sold on Brown, but with all that being said we are not far away.  Only Lincoln looked better than us and we are always in games, even when losing.  If we can figure out the best team and get them largely playing together in most games we should easily be good enough for the play offs.  The past few weeks have seen too much trying it out though.  As an example, I like Alzate, but yesterday bringing him on in the position he played was a poor decision, it unbalanced us.  He had to come on for Anderson in the formation we were playing, but Anderson was playing well.  Needs to quickly sort out the best way to play, we should then be ok.  If he doesn’t then I won’t lose any sleep over his departure.
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Pax Romana

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« Reply #291 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 16:05:47 »

We shouldn't need to overspend to at least be challenging in the playoffs in this division. We're a big fish in this small pond.

Absolutely correct.

This is neither arrogant nor " an element of our fan base who think we're too big for Div 4, based on history" which is an absurd remark, even by Reg's standards.

Over the long term a club's league position pretty accurately matches their fan base.  Saying that we should eventually end up back in the first/second quartile of Div 3 is simply a reflection of our relative size as a club.  

It is no different to Villa fans saying that sooner or later they will end up back in the Premier League.  It only becomes arrogant if you expect it as an autometic right.
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Sir red ken

« Reply #292 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 16:10:28 »

I suppose we aren't that far away from them, though recent performances make it feel like we are.

A couple of good results needed starting Saturday. I think we are at a critical juncture already, one that's hard to turn around if it goes the wrong way.
If PB is stubborn and keeps pick the team he did against Exeter, plus making the wrong subs, then 2 more defeats and we're sh1tting ourselves. I just can't see us getting a run of wins, because we haven't since PB's been incharge the odd back to back win/s but no 3/4/5 wins on the bounce. Why should anyone think that will change now? Yes we're only 4 points off the playoffs with a long way to go but were only 3 straight defeats off the relegation battle with a poor run of form. I can't sugar coat the state our club is in.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #293 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 17:10:06 »

Absolutely correct.

This is neither arrogant nor " an element of our fan base who think we're too big for Div 4, based on history" which is an absurd remark, even by Reg's standards.

Over the long term a club's league position pretty accurately matches their fan base.  Saying that we should eventually end up back in the first/second quartile of Div 3 is simply a reflection of our relative size as a club.  

It is no different to Villa fans saying that sooner or later they will end up back in the Premier League.  It only becomes arrogant if you expect it as an autometic right.

You're falling into the trap.... look no further than the Prem. take a season like 16/17 Sunderland and Chelsea's average attendance were both 41000.... Chelsea won the league Sunderland relegated. It's about how much you spend and how well it is invested.

If, the differential in Div 4 was huge, then yes, you'd expect that club to get up.... but ours isn't that huge, that it makes much difference and something other clubs can  compensate for by owner investment or borrowing.... hence we have a middling budget for Div 4 and are in a middling position.
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RedRag

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« Reply #294 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 18:16:20 »

to compare Chelsea with Sunderland is a false comparison as the relative importance of gate revenue in the premier league has become minuscule compared to its importance in Leagues 2 and 3.

Gates are readily ascertainable as are season ticket prices and holders.  How much owners are putting in or how much other clubs are not being run sustainably compared to STFC is, with limited exceptions, hypothetical guesswork.

Power's fanbois claim he has made us sustainable.  We find that out only when he leaves.  Hypothesis for now.  (even if Oldham and a few appear worse off).

When Andrew Black left (all too suddenly) he did write off sufficient debt to have made his funding of Wray's adventure sustainable. But when did mid table in League Two come to be regarded as satisfactory?  Gates will drop and so will opportunities.

Power does appear to been very good for STFC.  If he has achieved what his fanbois claim, then he has been very successful.  Transitionally.

But Gates and League tables are not speculation.   STFC is a League One Club.  Sure, it has no right to be there.  But if it is suggested that a chairman should be targeting mid table League Two with a shot at the play offs that would be a deriliction of ambition.  In my view, a club that is underperforming in relation to its success is ideal for takeover.

Blind optimism may be worse but a lack of ambition doesn't lead to success in many spheres that I know.  Unless we are talking about success for Power and NOT FOR STFC, eg re cuts from ground acquisition and development and player transfers.  Power is interestingly showing no signs of moving on or looking for owners who might have the ambition to take us well beyond mid table in League Two and has never shown any ambition for STFC beyond sustainability.  

« Last Edit: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 18:20:37 by RedRag » Logged
Sir red ken

« Reply #295 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 18:31:37 »

thank you Red Rag.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #296 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 19:46:42 »

to compare Chelsea with Sunderland is a false comparison as the relative importance of gate revenue in the premier league has become minuscule compared to its importance in Leagues 2 and 3.

Gates are readily ascertainable as are season ticket prices and holders.  How much owners are putting in or how much other clubs are not being run sustainably compared to STFC is, with limited exceptions, hypothetical guesswork.

Power's fanbois claim he has made us sustainable.  We find that out only when he leaves.  Hypothesis for now.  (even if Oldham and a few appear worse off).

When Andrew Black left (all too suddenly) he did write off sufficient debt to have made his funding of Wray's adventure sustainable. But when did mid table in League Two come to be regarded as satisfactory?  Gates will drop and so will opportunities.

Power does appear to been very good for STFC.  If he has achieved what his fanbois claim, then he has been very successful.  Transitionally.

But Gates and League tables are not speculation.   STFC is a League One Club.  Sure, it has no right to be there.  But if it is suggested that a chairman should be targeting mid table League Two with a shot at the play offs that would be a deriliction of ambition.  In my view, a club that is underperforming in relation to its success is ideal for takeover.

Blind optimism may be worse but a lack of ambition doesn't lead to success in many spheres that I know.  Unless we are talking about success for Power and NOT FOR STFC, eg re cuts from ground acquisition and development and player transfers.  Power is interestingly showing no signs of moving on or looking for owners who might have the ambition to take us well beyond mid table in League Two and has never shown any ambition for STFC beyond sustainability.  

Gates and budgets in Div 4 tend to be reasonably similar, unless you get a Pompey type down there, couple of years back when they won Div 4, their 16,000 average was just about double the 3rd nearest.

So last year, we were 5th highest, Chesterfield 6th, Spireites also had the 6th highest budget... they're now 3 points off the drop zone to Conference North. I'm sure they've fans who think they're too big for the Conference, who probably thought last season they were too big for Div 4.
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« Reply #297 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 21:44:56 »

Div4 is decided purely on budget. That’s how PDC got us up.

Terrible manager but loads of ££££
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RedRag

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« Reply #298 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 22:38:33 »

Disagreeing with everyone today.  Sorry.

PDC:   PDC was a rookie manager.  He made mistakes, some of player choice and some of man management. He was fortunate to be cushioned with money to correct his mistakes.  However, I don't recall any of our League Two players under PDC as so much above League Two level (Ritchie and Fods aside - both acquired before his arrival).  What did seem to happen was that PDC produced sides that were very drilled and relentless.  PDC's coaching may have been basic but it worked supremely.  Players and crowd seemed pretty motivated too.

Phil Brown:   W4 D5 L4.  Mid Table.  Not good enough for me.   Plenty of interesting  insights above.  I do remain happy however waiting to see how things actually do pan out going into and, if necessary, over the holiday season.
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« Reply #299 on: Sunday, October 14, 2018, 22:50:43 »

My point was tongue in cheek.

I rated Di Canio whilst others feel his success was based purely on the financial backing he had.
If that was the case the League table would go in budget order ever year, it doesn’t. Money doesn’t equal success & I don’t think Di Canio gets the credit he deserves for the job he did here.

If that sort of shot in the arm the club desperately needed at the time then and again now
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