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Author Topic: How do you think we are shaping up?  (Read 9458 times)
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Thingie


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« Reply #90 on: Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 13:57:29 »

I still think the Play Offs by season end.  Our worst, Lincoln aside, has been narrow losses, our best was a convincing win -

I'm still at a loss whether to describe our late wins as lucky, or our inability to score before the 90th minute as unlucky. On balance I think they were deserved, but I've still no idea which side of the watershed we'll come down on as the season progresses. Probably both
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bamboonoshoe


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« Reply #91 on: Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 14:32:11 »

Of course, all seasons are different, but with some similarities discernible.  Namely you play 46 games 23 at home on the same pitch etc.

In the league winning seasons, Macari and PdC and were able to significantly strengthen when necessary.... not a luxury that will be available to PB. (Unless something very strange happens)

Yeah, I feel our home form is better (I think stats back that up) than it was under Flitcroft to date. Can't deny he seemed to have a "nak" of finding a way to win away. However we haven't been overtly shit away. The standard of football is better and we are becoming harder to beat. It's like we've sorted the defence out (largely) and midfield, maybe PB was trying to get in a striker but those links have petered...for now. We certainly (as RobT says) have to get through the next three months and see where we are at. I'm sure if we aren't in a play-off spot or higher then it will be addressed in January (Power paid reportedly £350k for Woolery, so he does pay for a player). Well we'd hope. Sending Romanski, Will Henry, Twine and possibly Smith on loan would free up some wages to bring in two? We may even see a couple leave by mutual consent (Robbo & Is RCC still on our books or not?), possibly a retiree? I feel we are nearly there. The right shuffling of the squad and two more in the positions mentioned and we could be up there.

Anyway, nicely measured post Reg Smiley
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #92 on: Wednesday, October 3, 2018, 14:59:33 »

Yeah, I feel our home form is better (I think stats back that up) than it was under Flitcroft to date.

It is, but a significant stat might be that at no stage under Flitcroft, did we draw back to back blanks in the goals for column. That didn't happen last season until the antepenultimate and penultimate games under Brown namely Grimsby (h) and ColU (a)
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #93 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 11:55:28 »

So a bit more time has elapsed since the OP, so now more data to go on.... and it isn't comfortable reading.  As things stand with over a third of the season gone this is our worst ever Div 4 side.

17 games in, comparison

82/83 34 points p3rd
83/84 24 points p10th
84/85 23 points p12th
85/86 31 points p7th
06/07 31 points p4th
11/12 29 points p6th
17/18 29 points p5th

Using this by way of an indicator to final season's position

82/83 -5
83/84 -7
84/85 +4
85/86 +6
06/07 +1
11/12 +5
17/18 -4

In other words, usually from this stage of the season, although it can happen, mostly a side doesn't drop or rise too many positions until the end of the seasson.

In none of the seasons where we've had an improvement, could we get to the PO's from where we are, but an 82/83 style late slump would see us into the Conference.   I know there are those who maintain the Beamish outfit was the worst STFC side since the mid 50's, and certainly the air of atrophy hung thickly around the CG, but this is arguably worse.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey


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« Reply #94 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 12:06:46 »

The thread titles is ‘How are we shaping up’.

That shape is pear
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Thingie


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« Reply #95 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 12:15:32 »

Our worst ever start in the football league. Marvelous.

I've been a bit surprised by the calls for Brown to leave, more by some of the people who have seemed to be patient in previous dire situations.

But that really does put things into perspective.

And to be fair, his recent team selection are tipping me towards 'bugger off to Hull'. The only reason I'm not fully convinced its a good idea is that we may end up with Taylor. He seems a great pro,  but its too risky. Internal appointments...no.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #96 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 12:31:17 »

Our worst ever start in the football league. Marvelous.

I've been a bit surprised by the calls for Brown to leave, more by some of the people who have seemed to be patient in previous dire situations.

But that really does put things into perspective.

And to be fair, his recent team selection are tipping me towards 'bugger off to Hull'. The only reason I'm not fully convinced its a good idea is that we may end up with Taylor. He seems a great pro,  but its too risky. Internal appointments...no.


I guess all managerial appointments are to some extent a risk, but if Taylor does possess a magic wand, this could be a good time to find out, insofar as realistically we're not going to make the PO's and should just about have enough to stay up as long as the likes of Macc and Numb continue to struggle.

Ideally Hull will take Brown and give Power some compensation.
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« Reply #97 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 12:43:54 »

I guess all managerial appointments are to some extent a risk

True.

I'm just dead against internal appointments myself. And would prefer to try an 'up and coming' who has done a bit of management. Guess the chances of poaching anyone are zero.
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Not much to add on the 'how are we shaping up'.

Before the season started I thought we'd struggle for goals. Then August happened and I was looking a bit silly. Then September happened and I felt a bit smug.

It feels like we haven't hit the magic formula, but in searching for that we are continually tinkering and the result seems to be regression rather than progress.

In fact at times the players look a little confused in the roles they are supposed to be undertaking. Me too.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #98 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 12:56:28 »

True.

I'm just dead against internal appointments myself. And would prefer to try an 'up and coming' who has done a bit of management. Guess the chances of poaching anyone are zero.
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Not much to add on the 'how are we shaping up'.

Before the season started I thought we'd struggle for goals. Then August happened and I was looking a bit silly. Then September happened and I felt a bit smug.

It feels like we haven't hit the magic formula, but in searching for that we are continually tinkering and the result seems to be regression rather than progress.

In fact at times the players look a little confused in the roles they are supposed to be undertaking. Me too.

It's the way of the modern game though to tinker, players have to be adaptable, to a certain extent... namely you probably wouldn't stick a centre half on the wing, but might ask him to play in a 3 as well as 2 and perhaps occasionally as a holding midfielder.

Our problem, is again that the quality of players we can afford to recruit on the Power budget isn't very good, which is then compounded by injuries and suspensions.
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« Reply #99 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 13:23:20 »

Flexabiity is one thing.
Its the players left in the cold suddenly appearing as starters and vice versa that does my nut.

I know squads are there to be rotated for freshness and competition for places. This feels a bit more..random..in the hope we happen upon 'the solution'.

Do you honestly think McCourt plays his role better than Dave for example. That's one example of baffling tinkering. Though there is an obvious explanation.
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RobertT


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« Reply #100 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 13:29:33 »

I still hold firm that the quality of players in the squad, even allowing for obvious in-balances, should be enough to get into the play offs given the nature of opposition we are playing.  Take Colchester, a team doing well.  There was nothing on display that showed them to be a superior team by way of quality of players.  Certainly having watched them for 90 minutes, nothing that we should have feared.

Therefore, the current performance of the team suggests, to me, that we are underperforming.  That tinkering is the reason as far as I can see it.  There is nothing wrong with change - in fact, I've said before that trying something new and unseen works best.  Our 1990 team played a formation and style not really seen by others before.  Doing it effectively, with the right players meant we caught a lead on the division.  Ossie then had some success to begin with higher up, but teams work it out eventually.  Redknapp made a career by essentially changing his squad every year or two.  That is not the same as changing from one game to the next, every game.  Players don't tend to be a reflection of the average when you look at smarts - they concentrate on being better than everyone else at football when at school, not their homework (generalisation, but it is why players who get degrees are often on the BBC homepage).  Making them figure out how to play every game cannot be helpful, unless you recruited based on educational qualifications.  Let them be good at what they do, find out how to extract that, stick to it for a season, then re-invent again.
« Last Edit: Monday, November 5, 2018, 13:33:07 by RobertT » Logged
pauld


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« Reply #101 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 13:55:23 »

Players don't tend to be a reflection of the average when you look at smarts - they concentrate on being better than everyone else at football when at school, not their homework (generalisation, but it is why players who get degrees are often on the BBC homepage).  Making them figure out how to play every game cannot be helpful, unless you recruited based on educational qualifications.
You're assuming that:
a) There is always a correlation between intelligence and educational attainment
b) That there is only type of intelligence, which can be measured in school exams, and applied to football.

Both wildly incorrect IMO.
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RobertT


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« Reply #102 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 14:04:22 »

Football intelligence is another matter, but very few display it, again just an opinion.  Even at the very top level, look at Guardiola and his evident frustration during games they are winning 6-1 - because players do not always follow the plan.  He is someone who seems to have that intelligence but he still doesn't believe his team are delivering to the level he thinks they can do if they just follow the plan, training. instruction, coaching etc.

Coopers season is a good example of when it works - we did not deviate from a defined plan for a good 60% of that season.  We did toward the end when we added Swift and it created a bit of uncertainty, and we looked far more fragile overall despite having a better player in the team.  The rest of the league seemed a bit bamboozled by us, before a couple of teams worked out a way, then they all replicated that towards the end.  It nearly worked over a full season, maybe a plan B was needed towards the end, but not a new plan for every game.  Some fans were frustrated at the way we played out so dangerously at times, but it was the plan.  The team knew it, they stuck to it and it paid dividends more than it worked against us.
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pauld


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« Reply #103 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 14:08:10 »

Yep, agree with all that. And none of it has anything whatsoever to do with the school system or school exams, which was my point.
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Sir red ken
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« Reply #104 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 14:11:13 »

So a bit more time has elapsed since the OP, so now more data to go on.... and it isn't comfortable reading.  As things stand with over a third of the season gone this is our worst ever Div 4 side.

17 games in, comparison

82/83 34 points p3rd
83/84 24 points p10th
84/85 23 points p12th
85/86 31 points p7th
06/07 31 points p4th
11/12 29 points p6th
17/18 29 points p5th

Using this by way of an indicator to final season's position

82/83 -5
83/84 -7
84/85 +4
85/86 +6
06/07 +1
11/12 +5
17/18 -4

In other words, usually from this stage of the season, although it can happen, mostly a side doesn't drop or rise too many positions until the end of the seasson.

In none of the seasons where we've had an improvement, could we get to the PO's from where we are, but an 82/83 style late slump would see us into the Conference.   I know there are those who maintain the Beamish outfit was the worst STFC side since the mid 50's, and certainly the air of atrophy hung thickly around the CG, but this is arguably worse.
I've been troubled by the towns form of late but your stats have given me food for thought.
If we carry on as we are there's not going to be enough games by the end of Jan to save our arses based on our current form. We may only stay up by other teams being more shite than us despite our current mid table position. So here's my thoughts, the club is run on a shoe string and may not have the funds to remove PB or better still bring in a manger who can turn things around. If he does go then the sooner the better as we could stop the rot with some Jan signings (will be loans and freebies but that would be something) There's an air of resignation regarding our plight as we've been slowly sinking for a few seasons now, unless there's a wholesale change in the club its looking like we're heading to the conference. We have 3 old players who can't cut it in this division, we start with them each week which is a kin to sending out 8 players to face 11. Why does PB keep repeating the same mistakes/ is it part of a bigger plan! LASTLY OTHERS HAVE POSTED THIS, PLEASE GOD NO INTERNAL APPOINTMENTS, IT NEVER WORKS.
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