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Author Topic: How do you think we are shaping up?  (Read 8088 times)
Flashheart


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« Reply #120 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 18:28:50 »

I got the impression that the players didn't really fancy playing under Taylor in his one game in charge.

Players are usually well up for it when there's a new manager to try and impress and what not, but they just didn't seem that bothered. I know it was only one game and it's harsh to judge him on that, but still...
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« Reply #121 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 18:39:30 »

Eddie Howe lost his first two games at Bournemouth. We’ve nothing to judge Taylor on, apart from the fact he is clearly intelligent, articulate and that he’s incredibly keen to coach and appears to be ambitious.

I just don’t buy the “internal appointments don’t work” theory. They don’t work where they are made by default - i.e. he is here, so why not? There are a lot of those, where sentimentality or budget prevail over an objective selection of the best available option.

Taylor doesn’t fall into that bracket. If he applied, having not played at the club, he would still fit the criteria I would be looking for in a manager. As a lower half League 2 team, we no longer have the option of having “previous success” as a criterion. The fact Brown was appointed on that basis suggests it isn’t the best indicator anyway.

Appoint Taylor. Let him choose an assistant. What have we got to lose? We’re heading nowhere as it is. I just have a very good feeling he could turn us around.

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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #122 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 18:43:25 »

Alzate is better than anything I have seen at this level - that doesn't mean he will be a great player, but a decent Manager should be able to extract something useful from him this season.

Adebayo was a forward when younger, Fulham tried converting him to a defender due to his size and frame, they then agreed to move him back being a forward.

Both Doughty and Diagarouga are better than this level when on form, they have even shown as much with us this season in several games (not all).

Nelson is more than competent.

Knoyle could well have a career at the next level, depends how much effort goes into nurturing him.

There are others with a lot to prove, but there is enough in this squad to compete (we have competed in pretty much every game bar two).  You might like to portray us as cannon fodder, but the results show we are not.  They don't lie, we are not performing well enough to be higher than we are, but they show a team that is not far off those it plays against when it loses.  You tell me that Colchester looked markedly better than us on Saturday?

Re Alzate being better than anything you've seen at this level... Matt Ritchie  Hmmm 

Bayo's physical attributes may get him a career, but not necessarily at a high level.  Dia and Doughty have played at a higher level but it's doubtful they'll go back upwards.

Sid may make a career as a lower league stopper, and there's nothing wrong with that. Knoyle for me doesn't do enough, tidy , but you don't get a Kewell saying if you stop Knoyle getting balls in the box you stop Swindon like he did with Taylor.

I've said many times one of the good things about Div 4 is it is a relatively even league, hence a lot of draws and mostly not much between sides.... it's the little things that make the difference. So for example ColU could lure our leading goalscorer away, which has just given them an edge, especially as he wasn't replaced. Someone like a Lincoln could sign a Harry Toffolo, a player I'm sure we'd have all liked to see at LB.

Sometimes, the marginal gains can be something a bit strange and out of the blue.... so for example Accy last year, pick up Kayden Jackson who really had no sort of pedigree at all, he gets them 16 goals and they win the league.... Jackson gets snapped up by Ipswich has scored one league goal, and Tractorboys are detached at the foot of Div 2.

How much impact did Accy's free burger bonus for winning have?  There's little sign that anything a bit random is happening for us like a Twine coming good.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #123 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 19:02:15 »

Eddie Howe lost his first two games at Bournemouth. We’ve nothing to judge Taylor on, apart from the fact he is clearly intelligent, articulate and that he’s incredibly keen to coach and appears to be ambitious.

I just don’t buy the “internal appointments don’t work” theory. They don’t work where they are made by default - i.e. he is here, so why not? There are a lot of those, where sentimentality or budget prevail over an objective selection of the best available option.

Taylor doesn’t fall into that bracket. If he applied, having not played at the club, he would still fit the criteria I would be looking for in a manager. As a lower half League 2 team, we no longer have the option of having “previous success” as a criterion. The fact Brown was appointed on that basis suggests it isn’t the best indicator anyway.

Appoint Taylor. Let him choose an assistant. What have we got to lose? We’re heading nowhere as it is. I just have a very good feeling he could turn us around.



Howe was appointed by default according by your definition, Bormuff were skint had a skeleton staff, and had been docked something like 15 points. He was still on the payroll but injured and a senior player, so he got the gig.

Flasher's point about Taylor's one game is semi valid, apart from normal rules of engagement don't apply v Numb.   I doubt Taylor has a magic wand, the most reliable way for us to get back some forward momentum is for Power to either invest, or sell up to someone who can.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey


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« Reply #124 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 19:16:57 »

The problem for any owner who doesn’t just want to throw money at it, is there is not much incentive to be in L1 as opposed to staying in L2.

Accepting life in L2 has, of course, inherent problems - as in actually staying there.

What if the players who may well be capable of better realise the club isn’t really focussed or that bothered about getting promotion?

It’s why every club needs to be 100% pulling in the same direction. I honestly don’t feel, atm, that the club is that bothered.
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Frigby Daser


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« Reply #125 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 19:24:19 »

He was - the point is that if you extrapolate data on managers appointed (a) because they are in the building, and (b) those that happen to be in the building but would be the best fit anyway, even if they’d been outsiders - then the number of success stories in (b) would likely the as high, if not higher, than with any other managerial appointment. It is far too basic to say “he’s already here, so it cannot work.” That is simply false.

And based on a fairly safe assumption that neither of your Power-related solutions have even a remote possibility of happening, I think it’s fair to say a change of Manager is the most likely variable at this time.  
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #126 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 19:33:08 »

The problem for any owner who doesn’t just want to throw money at it, is there is not much incentive to be in L1 as opposed to staying in L2.

Accepting life in L2 has, of course, inherent problems - as in actually staying there.

What if the players who may well be capable of better realise the club isn’t really focussed or that bothered about getting promotion?

It’s why every club needs to be 100% pulling in the same direction. I honestly don’t feel, atm, that the club is that bothered.

Well you're going to get a better calibre of loan in Div 3, and then maybe you can pick them up if decent like Luongo,
 Byrne, so flog for decent money.... further better players around you make all players look better to some extent, so a Ben Gladwin looked good for a while with us we got a decent fee and he's been shit since.

This won't have escaped Power... however what has escaped Power is the ability for his contacts to spot a player. There are still players to be had... take Jack Marriott who's attracting a lot of attention at Derby.... youth at Ipswich, without playing, so out on loan 3 times to Woking, where he scord a few... Luton take a punt, then onto Posh where he scored loads last year.

I wonder if our scouts saw him when watching Jonny Goddard and thinking he was the business.

Another example... David Brooks a handful of Conference games for Halifax, then Sheff U buy him.... a handful of games for them then 11 mill to Bormuff.
« Last Edit: Monday, November 5, 2018, 19:57:37 by Reg Smeeton » Logged
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« Reply #127 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 19:47:39 »

He was - the point is that if you extrapolate data on managers appointed (a) because they are in the building, and (b) those that happen to be in the building but would be the best fit anyway, even if they’d been outsiders - then the number of success stories in (b) would likely the as high, if not higher, than with any other managerial appointment. It is far too basic to say “he’s already here, so it cannot work.” That is simply false.

And based on a fairly safe assumption that neither of your Power-related solutions have even a remote possibility of happening, I think it’s fair to say a change of Manager is the most likely variable at this time.  

It's axiomatic that most managers fail, as it is a very difficult job.  It requires all sorts of peculiar personal qualities many of them not necessarily that pleasant. So for example you have to be ruthless without appearing bullying... I think having trusted staff around is also key, so that you can delegate many aspects.  Brown may well be missing Horton's input.
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Frigby Daser


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« Reply #128 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 19:55:46 »

You seem to be missing my point. Taylor wouldn’t fail because he has spent time at the club. He would succeed or fail depending on whether he is any good.

I’d  also say that managers have succeeded without being ruthless, and some have succeeded whilst openly encouraging an element of fear (PDC, Clough...). Some have succeeded without trusted staff, but some don’t. Brown may be missing Horton, but he didn’t do much better when he had him here. I’m not sure how any of this relates to the original point above, except to say that there is no golden rule to managerial success, just trends, many of which get bucked.
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« Reply #129 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 20:02:36 »

I got the impression that the players didn't really fancy playing under Taylor in his one game in charge.

Players are usually well up for it when there's a new manager to try and impress and what not, but they just didn't seem that bothered. I know it was only one game and it's harsh to judge him on that, but still...

Not true. The fans and players were well up for it. We just didn't play well and the heads dropped. The defence was terrible that day and Eisa tore us apart
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« Reply #130 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 20:17:19 »

Reg - Alzate is better than anything I have seen this season.  Even Ritchie was bang average when he first came - at the time he looked a far less likely prospect than Ward.  PDC found his sweet spot, that's for sure.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #131 on: Monday, November 5, 2018, 23:33:07 »

Reg - Alzate is better than anything I have seen this season.  Even Ritchie was bang average when he first came - at the time he looked a far less likely prospect than Ward.  PDC found his sweet spot, that's for sure.

Oh right. Not a lot to compare with this season. Danny Ward now there's a name.... his little knock in after a run by JPM at the Valley, a thing of great beauty, but look at the hero of that night Steven Darby, when it boils down to it, it's only a game of football.
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« Reply #132 on: Tuesday, November 6, 2018, 10:11:26 »

I really don't see the talent.... I ask myself a basic question, could I see this lad playing further up the pyramid?  When I look at our squad the answer is mostly... no. Alzate and Bayo whilst having some ability, are miles away from being near a finished product, which is of course why they're on loan to try and add that missing something.

I was interested to read that Bayo was in fact brought through by Fulham as a centre half, up front is a recent conversion.

Rather what you need to do is forge a unit where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and we're not doing that atm for a number of reasons.

Brighton have given Alzate a 5 year contract I think so they obviously see him as a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. I presume next season they'll be looking for a league 1 side for a loan next season, and then Championship etc.
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« Reply #133 on: Tuesday, November 6, 2018, 10:21:41 »

Oh right. Not a lot to compare with this season. Danny Ward now there's a name.... his little knock in after a run by JPM at the Valley, a thing of great beauty, but look at the hero of that night Steven Darby, when it boils down to it, it's only a game of football.

Great post Reg.

Going off topic for just a second, did anyone see Doddie Weir either on the one show or before the Wales v Scotland egg chasing on Saturday? His life is slowly being shut down and he speaks with such humour and with a smile on his face. Its a battle that sadly he can't win, but he won't let that show. Such a horrific disease.
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« Reply #134 on: Tuesday, November 6, 2018, 10:24:29 »

Brighton have given Alzate a 5 year contract I think so they obviously see him as a talent and someone who could play at a higher level. I presume next season they'll be looking for a league 1 side for a loan next season, and then Championship etc.

Doesn't really indicate a whole lot, other than B and HA think he might make a player, and not much to lose if he doesn't.

Chelsea have 40 players on loan, and an U 21 side of players there who could win 4-0 at the CG.... more or less none of these will play for the first team, but they may make a few bob out of selling them, Patrick Bamford style, on the back of the loans.

Soton extended Jordan Turnbull's contract when he was with us, then soon afterwards moved him out.
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