McCormick

[chalkies_shorts]

Difficult to know where to start with this one. Brown wants unity and then looks to bring in the one player guaranteed to divide the fans. I'm sure there will also be divided views amongst the players even in they don't publicly express it.
Everyone has their own level of tolerance as to what is acceptable or not, even if it is hypocritical or lessons learned.
I wouldn't disagree with anyone on this subject. It is personal to each but I just think, if you don't have to, then why fucking bother. Its not like he's the only bench warming keeper out there. If its a case of we can get him cheap then that doesn't sit well with me either due to the circumstances.
Has he served his time, back on the piss etc or has he served his time and voluntarily talks to vulnerable groups to try and ensure others don't do what he did. I haven't got a clue. If its the former then no thanks. If its the latter then I'd be ok with it. You can't turn back the clock but you can tell your story and if it stops one person doing it then you've done a very good thing.
So, that's the key question for me - is he going back to old ways or is he truly trying to make amends. I appreciate there is a lot of grey in the middle.
Saying that, I hope he doesn't sign.

[Reg Smeeton]

Difficult to know where to start with this one. Brown wants unity and then looks to bring in the one player guaranteed to divide the fans. I'm sure there will also be divided views amongst the players even in they don't publicly express it.
Everyone has their own level of tolerance as to what is acceptable or not, even if it is hypocritical or lessons learned.
I wouldn't disagree with anyone on this subject. It is personal to each but I just think, if you don't have to, then why fucking bother. Its not like he's the only bench warming keeper out there. If its a case of we can get him cheap then that doesn't sit well with me either due to the circumstances.
Has he served his time, back on the piss etc or has he served his time and voluntarily talks to vulnerable groups to try and ensure others don't do what he did. I haven't got a clue. If its the former then no thanks. If its the latter then I'd be ok with it. You can't turn back the clock but you can tell your story and if it stops one person doing it then you've done a very good thing.
So, that's the key question for me - is he going back to old ways or is he truly trying to make amends. I appreciate there is a lot of grey in the middle.
Saying that, I hope he doesn't sign.

Excellent points.... it seems to me one of the fundamentals of support is that you have to have a certain empathy with the players representing you, by their wearing of the shirt. For sure this entails a certain suspension of reality, but the custodian is unique within that framework, last line of defence, closest to fans gathered behind the goal that sort of thing.

So a sort of bond can develop.... we've had some great characters down the years, many much admired by Town fans. Sammy Burton, Peter Downsborough, Jimmy Allan, Kenny Allen, Fraser Digby, even the likes of Phil Smith and briefly Brez.

More recently Wes, an excellent keeper and thoroughly decent young man.... Vigs jury still out for me.

This relationship just isn't going to be available for LM.... and to me it shows perhaps not intended disrespect to the fans but a very poor understanding of what being a fan means.  I'd hoped for better from PB

[hefty toe]

Excellent points.... it seems to me one of the fundamentals of support is that you have to have a certain empathy with the players representing you, by their wearing of the shirt. For sure this entails a certain suspension of reality, but the custodian is unique within that framework, last line of defence, closest to fans gathered behind the goal that sort of thing.

So a sort of bond can develop.... we've had some great characters down the years, many much admired by Town fans. Sammy Burton, Peter Downsborough, Jimmy Allan, Kenny Allen, Fraser Digby, even the likes of Phil Smith and briefly Brez.

More recently Wes, an excellent keeper and thoroughly decent young man.... Vigs jury still out for me.

This relationship just isn't going to be available for LM.... and to me it shows perhaps not intended disrespect to the fans but a very poor understanding of what being a fan means.  I'd hoped for better from PB

It shouldn't come as much of a surprise.  Brown was happy to sign Nile Ranger - an utter scumbag.

[OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR]

Is signing him going to dramatically improve our chances of promotion? Probably not.
Will it create a whole world of problems? Most definitely.
Luke McCormick has to rebuild his life, that's his problem - let's not make it ours.

[Bob's Orange]

Is signing him going to dramatically improve our chances of promotion? Probably not.
Will it create a whole world of problems? Most definitely.
Luke McCormick has to rebuild his life, that's his problem - let's not make it ours.

Re your first question - I had a look back on his career specifically after he signed for Plymouth and saw this.

'McCormick was handed the role of club captain before the start of the 2014–15 season. The campaign was a strong one for McCormick, as he started all 53 league and cup matches, kept 22 clean sheets and won Argyle's player of the year award'

Unfortunately this isn't black and white due to the issues being discussed but on the pitch it gives us 2 good keepers.

[horlock07]

I am never sure what the difference is in terms of a league 2 player continuing their chosen career or an accountant (both have ended up doing what they do through hard work and being good at it), average Lg 2 salaries are probably less than a qualified accountant could earn so why is it hugely different? Are we now saying that anyone convicted of such a crime should no longer be allowed to work, so for instance this guy, https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/a50-cyclist-death-john-stewart-1727253 should not be allowed to work to support his family? (only use that as an example as was discussing it yesterday as the victim was a loose acquaintance of mine from another forum)? I can just imagine the righteous indignation if it came out in the tabloids that McCormick was living on benefits.

Many years ago I was the driver in an accident where my girlfriend (now my wife) was injured, due to her injury it was subject to a police investigation which took about 4 months (interview under caution etc etc) and they concluded that it was an accident and that I was not at fault in any way, however to this day it still fucks with my head a lot, I didn't go out to crash but due to a mixture of circumstances it happened.....

A key point of prison is rehabilitation, and if he joins we can all tell our kids as a story to be bloody careful and not act like a fuckwit as it can have horrible consequences. I note that when he signed for Plymouth certain of the victims relatives were coming out saying they were trying to get on with their life and he should do likewise.

I an entirely indifferent if he signs, see no reason why it should be more of a pantomime than when he was at Plymouth, it it was Lee Hughes I would feel very different but McCormick didn't leave the scene and hide for nearly 2 days to avoid a breath test or plead innocent and then try to appeal his sentence.  

[Batch]

Everyone has their line in the sand with regards morality Horlock. Consequences are judged even if the crime is the same, even in law.

I've been trying to think how to express it without lashing out in a post (at the signing). I guess those that have done their time are at liberty to work wherever they can find employment, but they'll always be judged

Its just a question of your own personal line
- drug dealing
- rapist
- murderer
- pedophilia
- death by drunk driving...
- someone convicted of assisting terrorism

Some people will be fine with some of that, some none, some all.

He'll sign, or not, but we are never going to get agreement on this. And we don't all have to support it.
 

[horlock07]

As you say everyone is different and I have no interest in disagreement as I am not trying to say that my PoV is any more valid than anyone elses...

However as a practical question if those convicted of those crimes are to be excluded from the job market what are they going to do, in McCormicks case for c.80-90 years, live off the state?

[Ells]

As you say everyone is different and I have no interest in disagreement as I am not trying to say that my PoV is any more valid than anyone elses...

However as a practical question if those convicted of those crimes are to be excluded from the job market what are they going to do, in McCormicks case for c.80-90 years, live off the state?

I don't wish to speak for anyone, and it's not my view, but I think the issue is the fact that he's a footballer, not that he has a job.

[Quagmire]

Difficult to know where to start with this one. Brown wants unity and then looks to bring in the one player guaranteed to divide the fans. I'm sure there will also be divided views amongst the players even in they don't publicly express it.
Everyone has their own level of tolerance as to what is acceptable or not, even if it is hypocritical or lessons learned.
I wouldn't disagree with anyone on this subject. It is personal to each but I just think, if you don't have to, then why fucking bother. Its not like he's the only bench warming keeper out there. If its a case of we can get him cheap then that doesn't sit well with me either due to the circumstances.
Has he served his time, back on the piss etc or has he served his time and voluntarily talks to vulnerable groups to try and ensure others don't do what he did. I haven't got a clue. If its the former then no thanks. If its the latter then I'd be ok with it. You can't turn back the clock but you can tell your story and if it stops one person doing it then you've done a very good thing.
So, that's the key question for me - is he going back to old ways or is he truly trying to make amends. I appreciate there is a lot of grey in the middle.
Saying that, I hope he doesn't sign.

Interestingly, he apparantly gave 50% of his wages to Children’s charities whilst at Plymouth. (After the accident)

[Peter Venkman]

Well he has signed, hes not a bad keeper, lets try and move on past what he did even though we ALL have reservations about what happened and can debate it all year, but hes here now.

I have no idea how he was accepted at the Pox and Plymouth since his crime but I am guessing he just got on with his job as he will do with us.

Lets just back the team whoever plays nobody can condone what he did, not even slightly, but he has been dealt with in the way the courts see fit and its not for us to say what should and shouldn't have happened to him in the eyes of the law.

We don't need to cheer his name when he plays or sing it, we just hope he doesn't let us down, as we do with every new player.

Hes here now so lets deal with the football side of things and not the off the field shit.

[Batch]

Sorry Venks, I feel very strongly about this. I can't support him in a Town shirt. I hope he never plays for us.

I won't boycott matches, or call him out at games. But I fully intend to let the club and sponsors know my feelings at every social media opportunity.

Never felt so disappointing in a Town signing.

[Reg Smeeton]

Sorry Venks, I feel very strongly about this. I can't support him in a Town shirt. I hope he never plays for us.

I won't boycott matches, or call him out at games. But I fully intend to let the club and sponsors know my feelings at every social media opportunity.

Never felt so disappointing in a Town signing.

This is indeed a new low in our history.... I just don't think I could go to a game knowing he's playing.  Could I if he's on the bench 

[Peter Venkman]

Sorry Venks, I feel very strongly about this. I can't support him in a Town shirt. I hope he never plays for us.

I won't boycott matches, or call him out at games. But I fully intend to let the club and sponsors know my feelings at every social media opportunity.

Never felt so disappointing in a Town signing.

Thats fair enough I appreciate it is not acceptible in any way shape or form but I have gone past it and will only judge him on what he does with us on and off the field.

But everybody has their own (in many cases such as yours) strong opinions.

When he was on trial with us then I did not want him near the club at all but I have mellowed a bit now that we are not his first club. Rightly or wrongly.

He will always divide opinion though.

[akay69]

The club have reached a new low.