Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 8   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: McCormick  (Read 8597 times)
bamboonoshoe


+68/-152
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 19:37:14 »

It's obviously a very difficult, emotive subject. However people feel, there is no right or wrong point of view.

I personally think its interesting to compare how people reacted to Jimmy Davis's tragic death and how they reacted to Luke McCormick - the same people I'm sure in a lot of cases. I've not researched the incidents in microscopic detail but I'm pretty sure its fair to say that what each of them did was virtually identical. They both got into and drove a high powered vehicle on a motorway only a short amount of time after consuming a shed load of alcohol - so much so that there is no way they could not have known they were over the limit.

The consequences of each one's actions clearly were totally different. However, these could easily have been reversed. Luke McCormick didn't intend to kill two innocent kids and severely injure their dad. Conversely, it was only good fortune (if you can call it that) that meant that Jimmy Davis didn't kill anyone else but himself. McCormick lived, Davis died - could easily have been the other way round.

McCormick is reviled (understandably), Davis attains virtual saint hood. That's certainly what I remember of that very sad time in 2003. But how ironic - Neither of them showed any regards for human life and behaved in an unimaginably selfish, reckless manner and destroyed lives but are thought of in such contrasting terms.



We may not always agree (trivial shit  Wink ) but that is a spot on assessment. Well said.
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
bamboonoshoe


+68/-152
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #16 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 19:43:54 »

Whereas I have never drove under the influence of drink or drugs, and if did make the choice to drink and drive and to use my car as a weapon to kill an innocent person, then I would expect a whole of life term and no mercy whatsoever,  if you choose to live by the sword, then you must be prepared to die by the sword, Iím sure many drink drivers find this sanctimonious, while their victims would not.

Okay, let's drop the drink/drug drive thing for a second and consider this...

Are you saying you have never done anything that could end in a tragic accident. Ever? Even if initially you didn't consider the consequences or potential outcome? Then later regretted what you did. You may even have hurt someone but you didn't intend to, but you did? You've never done that?

It's not about being sanctimonious, it's about understanding regret. We are all human and with tht comes the ability to make mistakes/decisions that we shouldn't have. Answer the above honestly to yourself.
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
Batch
Thingie


+110/-46
Offline Offline

Posts: 37545





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 19:44:59 »

Its exactly because the consequences were different, Davis paid with his life. McCormick took someone else's and got off lightly. Of course they'll be treated differently.

I'll leave it there. We went round in circles for ages last time.
Logged
bamboonoshoe


+68/-152
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #18 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 19:49:26 »

Its exactly because the consequences were different, Davis paid with his life. McCormick took someone else's and got off lightly. Of course they'll be treated differently.

I'll leave it there. We went round in circles for ages last time.

I think what OST is getting at is those two circumstances/consequences could quite easily have been reversed.

However you're right, this has been spoken way too much before.
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR
- FACT!


+33/-5
Offline Offline

Posts: 12472



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:04:25 »

As I said - there's no right or wrong with regards to how people view Luke McCormick.

I personally think he should be allowed to earn a living in whichever way he chooses. However (and some will say this is hypocritical but 'it is what it is') I really don't want that to be at Swindon. We do not need the baggage that would come with him (and you are talking, the total amount going through the conveyor belts at Heathrow in 1 year) . I would say that to Phil Brown as well.

It's a real shame that McCormick couldn't have carried on playing for Plymouth as they knew him before 'the incident'. That seems to make a massive difference although I can't quite put it into words as to why that should be. They certainly seem to think of him as 'one of their own' (clearly not all their fans are going to be of that inclination obviously)

Basically, they were the only team he could possibly have played for and I personally don't see how he can carry on in football - although that doesn't mean he should not be allowed to. It's a tricky one but I think STFC needs to stay well away.

« Last Edit: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:16:46 by OOH! SHAUN TAYLOR » Logged
RobertT


+43/-24
Offline Offline

Posts: 6181




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:07:36 »

I thought I expressed a view in the 53 page thread last time, but seemingly not, might have been about Hughes instead.

I'm with Batch, but for differing reasons.  Ultimately, regardless of the circumstances leading up the event, he committed and was convicted of a serious offence, a crime.  Arguably the sentence was too short, that is another argument.  However, my problem is not with the right of someone to carry of with their life once they serve their punishment, it is with the special treatment he gets due to his chosen profession.  He absolutely should be free to pursue a life once freed from prison, but in how many other profession would having such a conviction on your record enable to you to waltz back in at the same level, or close to, where you left off?  Everyone else who makes these types mistakes (more accurately described as personal choices) has to fight their way through life to regain their status, it's not fair on them.  That's the reason I mostly against us signing him, or anyone signing him in the professional ranks to be honest.

He is also a cunt.

And yes, for everyone who now advises me they've escaped from such a mistake in more favourable circumstances, you are also cunts, just not quite so high on the cunt scale - amazingly, outcomes do matter!  It's why there are differing crimes you punish people for breaking.

But, it's just a personal opinion.  The law entitles him to work, if we see fit to pay his wages as a private business, that's up to STFC.  Maybe the argument should actually be about why others cannot be afforded the same future as he is.
Logged
RobertT


+43/-24
Offline Offline

Posts: 6181




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:08:42 »

Oh, and I never did get the sympathy for Jimmy Davis.
Logged
akay69

« Reply #22 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:13:59 »

Okay, let's drop the drink/drug drive thing for a second and consider this...

Are you saying you have never done anything that could end in a tragic accident. Ever? Even if initially you didn't consider the consequences or potential outcome? Then later regretted what you did. You may even have hurt someone but you didn't intend to, but you did? You've never done that?

It's not about being sanctimonious, it's about understanding regret. We are all human and with tht comes the ability to make mistakes/decisions that we shouldn't have. Answer the above honestly to yourself.

If I followed you up the garden path, I am sure you could make a very good job of blurring the lines between right and wrong, regret and responsibility, however ultimately he did what he did, and I am judging him by my own standards as will everyone else, and this is a clearly a personal matter that we will never agree on.
Logged
bamboonoshoe


+68/-152
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #23 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:18:21 »


I personally think he should be allowed to earn a living in whichever way he chooses. However (and some will say this is hypocritical but 'it is what it is') I really don't want that to be at Swindon. We do not need the baggage that would come with him (and you are talking, the total amount going through the conveyor belts at Heathrow in 1 year) . I would say that to Phil Brown as well.

See, I would say that the 'baggage' that comes with him, is more down to the baggage/beef that people choose to have with him. I'd say there was more baggage that comes with a player like Nile Ranger/Lee Bowyer etc. Why? Because those types of people have never learnt from their mistakes. I think many would be surprised as to what kind of character McCormick is now and the kind of work he puts it to prevent others making the mistake he did. To me, that is a much bigger person. To face derision and onslaught publicly. He could easily have skulked of into a day job but he's actually facing his critics (deservedly) in public and trying to right a god awful wrong. He may likely have to do that all his life.

This doesn't mean there is no compassion for the families involved. It's incredibly tragic. There's so many factors, he could've got in his car 5minutes later/earlier and missed them. They could've taken an alternative route and it may never have happened. He may have not decided to go but someone else may have drunk drove and killed them. etc, etc, etc.

The tragedy also includes McCormick's family too. They've woke up one morning and discovered something terrible has happened. Do they deserve that kind of abuse too? Because I'm certain they will have received it.
« Last Edit: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:21:49 by bamboonoshoe » Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
Reg Smeeton
Walking Encyclopaedia


+104/-402
Offline Offline

Posts: 31315





Ignore
« Reply #24 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:21:49 »

 There are some who wouldn't accept LM because he played for Oxford.... Jim Barron seemed broadly accepted and he played over 150 games for them before his stint with us. Personally, think I'd find it difficult with LM between our sticks, it would be easier say if he was goalkeeping coach.... a low profile position.

Would I still go  Hmmm not sure.
Logged
bamboonoshoe


+68/-152
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #25 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:36:38 »

If I followed you up the garden path, I am sure you could make a very good job of blurring the lines between right and wrong, regret and responsibility, however ultimately he did what he did, and I am judging him by my own standards as will everyone else, and this is a clearly a personal matter that we will never agree on.

Maybe so, but you would still be responsible for your own actions. A court of law would not accept if I convinced you it was a good idea to do something potentially dangerous. You might receive a lesser sentence if you're lucky but the question was asked, in more brief terms;

Have you never made a mistake, whereby the consequences could be tragic?

This includes something like crossing the road when you know there is a car coming. Sounds ridiculous? No. You don't intend to hurt anyone but you slip up on the road. The car hits you. You survive, the driver is thrown out of the window and the impact of his skull on the road kills him. That guys family changes forever. It's a tragic accident. You regret running across that road knowing full well it wasn't safe to. Yet it happened. You now have to live with that decision (which at the time seems very trivial and you were completely aware that you were making it).

On another note, maybe cars need to have locking sensors on them that recognise if you're off your rocker, or require you to enter a pin to start the car. If you get it wrong it rings a call centre and they can identify if you're fit to drive via a series of questions. Can even call the police so they can arrive and prevent even a drink drive charge and/or tragic incident happening. Not foolproof by any means but preventative measures.
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
Nomoreheroes
The Moral Majority


+18/-9
Offline Offline

Posts: 7608





Ignore
« Reply #26 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:38:44 »

Can we stop all of this sanctimonious shit and talk about transfer rumours please.
Logged

You're my incurable malady. I miss the pleasure of your company.
bamboonoshoe


+68/-152
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #27 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:40:42 »

Can we stop all of this sanctimonious shit and talk about transfer rumours please.

Have we signed anyone else yet?  Wink
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
Matchworn Shirts
For Sale


+7/-17
Offline Offline

Posts: 5897




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:49:18 »

Have we signed anyone else yet?  Wink

Yes, Adam Johnson
Logged

I come from a land down-under
bamboonoshoe


+68/-152
Offline Offline

Posts: 1999


Chief Feather Ruffler


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #29 on: Thursday, July 5, 2018, 20:59:08 »

Yes, Adam Johnson

Ffs, I was expecting Ched Evans to turn up.
Logged

COYR WAPBRAWA COYR
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 ... 8   Go Up
Print
Jump to: