Phil Brown: Yes or No?

[Peter Venkman]

For whatever reason we seem to have had a problem with unmotivated players for a bloody long time...

Since PdC left I would think.

[Reg Smeeton]

But if Brown can't motivate them what makes you think Waddock could ?. A good clear out is needed but once again we seem to be stuck with players drawing good wages who either don't want to play for this club or simply aren't good enough.  If we were paying performance related wages, based on this season,  most players would end up paying the club.

I don't think many people have criticised the players for lack of effort this season... lack of quality perhaps.  But that's what you'd expect in Div 4.  There's no magic wand here, players like Woolery and Anderson, if replaced given our circumstances will likely be just another Woolery and Anderson.  What is needed is a gaffer who can get them playing to their abilities within a suitable team framework.

A classic example would be to go back to our previous low finish in Div 4 in 83/84. In that side you had Dave Hockaday and Leigh Barnard, now if around today both of these would be up for knacker's yard, in the eyes of some of our fans, having been part of a side finishing 17th in Div 4.  But no, Macari saw what they could do, harnessed that and we rose up to Div 2, both played around 300 games for us.

It was only a matter of weeks ago that many claimed that once Flitters' "shackles" were removed the players would show their previously suppressed quality.... the same people now think they're shit and need being rid of.

[Red Frog]

On the subject of fine margins and much-of-muchness in Division 4, I saw a comment by Bryan Wade in a twitter exchange the other week about how Macari's extreme fitness regime made all the difference in our 83-84 promotion year, and he didn't understand why clubs didn't focus on extreme fitness now. It wasn't just about being physically fit - it was about how Macari's obsession with good habits (including spying on them on nights out) made the players focus every day on improving, which in turn built a winning mindset.

Could a return to an extreme fitness regime pay dividends again, or has a general improvement in training methods meant that a club at this level can't stand out from the pack on fitness any more? Or would modern players not put up with that degree of managerial interference in their lives?

[Power to people]

Looking at Preston's position now and how they have kicked on since promotion, it does make you wonder what would have happened if we had made it...

[Peter Venkman]

On the subject of fine margins and much-of-muchness in Division 4, I saw a comment by Bryan Wade in a twitter exchange the other week about how Macari's extreme fitness regime made all the difference in our 83-84 promotion year, and he didn't understand why clubs didn't focus on extreme fitness now. It wasn't just about being physically fit - it was about how Macari's obsession with good habits (including spying on them on nights out) made the players focus every day on improving, which in turn built a winning mindset.

Could a return to an extreme fitness regime pay dividends again, or has a general improvement in training methods meant that a club at this level can't stand out from the pack on fitness any more? Or would modern players not put up with that degree of managerial interference in their lives?

This is something I have been banging on about for a while now, a fit side lacking in quality can grind out results due purely down to fitness, scoring goals when the opponents tire. Under Macari in the championship winning side of 85-86 we must have scored a high percentage in the last 20 mins of games due to our high level of fitness.

[sir windon]

Macari is my all time hero because of how he gained success with that team.........but the amount of people that still used to moan about the style of play!

[The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey]

At the basement level, most clubs have fairly similar squads - in terms of quality, or lack thereof.

The difference is the manager.

[Batch]

But surely fitness is a more exact science than running round and round an army assault course these days.

You'd think that any professional fitness coach would monitor pretty much everything, diet, weight, peak recovery strategy, miles run in a half... Once you have that I think its like RF said, the firness gaps between two professional teams are small.

Except...

Take Luke Williams team. Didn't he say he was a piss around with the ball in training type - not a flog them running type. Certainly looked like it on the pitch too, blowing out their arses last 15.

So maybe there is variance in fitness after all....

Oh circular hell.

[horlock07]

But we do the fitness stuff don't we - seen pictures of the players wearing those sports bra's in training which collect all the data?

[pauld]

But we do the fitness stuff don't we - seen pictures of the players wearing those sports bra's in training which collect all the data?

Collecting data is one thing. Analysing it correctly and acting on it (and how you choose to act on it) quite another

[RedRag]

Yeah but.

How many Div 4 type managers are going to have the ability, charisma or respect to unite a squad with a common purpose by significantly increased fitness demands?

There'll soon be factions and key players demurring.

The exceptions were Di Canio and Macari.

[Red Frog]

Yeah but.

How many Div 4 type managers are going to have the ability, charisma or respect to unite a squad with a common purpose by significantly increased fitness demands?

There'll soon be factions and key players demurring.

The exceptions were Di Canio and Macari.

I think this is the point Bryan Wade was making. The emphasis on physical fitness was just part of their method of keeping the players constantly focused on a winning mindset.

[Honest Lee]

Interview with Simon Cox.  Things seem to have improved at Southend since Brown departed.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11355154/simon-cox-reflects-on-the-most-difficult-season-of-his-career

[Peter Venkman]

Interview with Simon Cox.  Things seem to have improved at Southend since Brown departed.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11355154/simon-cox-reflects-on-the-most-difficult-season-of-his-career

But Cox seems to have liked PB.

"Drastic changes were made and while it was not great to see because Phil Brown was well liked, maybe they were needed too,"

[pauld]

Yeah but.

How many Div 4 type managers are going to have the ability, charisma or respect to unite a squad with a common purpose by significantly increased fitness demands?

There'll soon be factions and key players demurring.

The exceptions were Di Canio and Macari.

Di Canio wasn't an exception, he ruled by divide and rule, factions and "the bomb squad" were a core part of his methodology.