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stfcjack


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« Reply #105 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:47:50 »

Feel like I'm in a small minority here who doesn't actually mind Flitcroft, even though he does make some odd decisions at times
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #106 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 15:57:19 »

Feel like I'm in a small minority here who doesn't actually mind Flitcroft, even though he does make some odd decisions at times

There's no such thing as boss who hasn't made some complete cock ups.  Danny Williams gets quoted, but as well as the gems he got in some real stinkers...

Lou Macari likewise.  In fact thus far what characterises Flitters' time, is that he has mostly got some value out of slim resources.  Just as well really as if he'd signed some of the stumers that Danny and Lou had at times we'd be well in the shit.

Lou also had the advantage of being able to acquire talent we couldn't afford by creative accounting.
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REDBUCK


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« Reply #107 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 18:58:21 »

Indeed.  If Captain Colin was playing for Mansfield now, we couldn't afford him.
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Oaksey Moonraker


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« Reply #108 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 19:29:40 »

There's no such thing as boss who hasn't made some complete cock ups.  Danny Williams gets quoted, but as well as the gems he got in some real stinkers...

Lou Macari likewise.  In fact thus far what characterises Flitters' time, is that he has mostly got some value out of slim resources.  Just as well really as if he'd signed some of the stumers that Danny and Lou had at times we'd be well in the shit.

Lou also had the advantage of being able to acquire talent we couldn't afford by creative accounting.
A bit unfair on Lou's reputation for talent spotting and improving players. Macari signed most of his players through agreed low transfer fees with clubs or free transfers, Bamber, Chalky, Diggers, Bodin.

There were relatively few through transfer tribunals were we got pulled up in 1990 for underdisclosing wages through the illegal payments and these were later transfers like Ross MacLaren but Colin was one.

If I recall the scale of the illegal payments was about 100k over 6 years when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs got pulled up for one off payments of similar amounts with a slap on the wrist.

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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #109 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 19:44:14 »

If I recall the scale of the illegal payments was about 100k over 6 years when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs got pulled up for one off payments of similar amounts with a slap on the wrist.
it was indeed a tax loss of 100k and yes Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham had bigger monitary amounts for less transfers but beacuse we had 36 counts they made an example of us.

But at the time all were well established top division sides, we were just the newcomers to the party, I still think we should have challenged the demotion(s) more at the time.

Macari was one hell of a scout though.
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« Reply #110 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 19:44:20 »

A bit unfair on Lou's reputation for talent spotting and improving players. Macari signed most of his players through agreed low transfer fees with clubs or free transfers, Bamber, Chalky, Diggers, Bodin.

There were relatively few through transfer tribunals were we got pulled up in 1990 for underdisclosing wages through the illegal payments and these were later transfers like Ross MacLaren but Colin was one.

If I recall the scale of the illegal payments was about 100k over 6 years when the likes of Chelsea and Spurs got pulled up for one off payments of similar amounts with a slap on the wrist.

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Jake Findlay, Tony Evans, Derek Hall, 2nd time Mossy all signed by Lou at the start of 85/86..... to no great benefit.

For sure Lou signed some good players. All well and good if like PdC you can have a scatter gun approach, because you have some money to chuck around either by legal or illegal means. Flitters can't afford mistakes, and thus far has managed to get some value from his signings.
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Oaksey Moonraker


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« Reply #111 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:08:56 »

Jake Findlay, Tony Evans, Derek Hall, 2nd time Mossy all signed by Lou at the start of 85/86..... to no great benefit.

For sure Lou signed some good players. All well and good if like PdC you can have a scatter gun approach, because you have some money to chuck around either by legal or illegal means. Flitters can't afford mistakes, and thus far has managed to get some value from his signings.
Macari was doing something right because of the fans calls for his reinstatement in Easter 1985 whereas the jury is still out on Flitcroft in most fans eyes during his first season.

 Maybe he is going to take us from League 2 into the Championship playoffs like Lou did in 5 years.





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pauld


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« Reply #112 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:19:16 »

Macari was doing something right because of the fans calls for his reinstatement in Easter 1985 whereas the jury is still out on Flitcroft in most fans eyes during his first season.
Which, to be fair, is probably as it should be. I'm unconvinced so far if I'm honest and have been critical of some of his man management in particular but still think he could yet get us out of this division and if he does so he deserves all the plaudits that he will get for that. And if he does take us up, there should be no question of his job being safe IMO (mentioning that solely because some have said they'd get rid even if he does take us up)
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #113 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:20:49 »

Jake Findlay, Tony Evans, Derek Hall, 2nd time Mossy all signed by Lou at the start of 85/86..... to no great benefit.
I don't think Hall was a bad signing (just a bad perm Wink ) he didn't fit into our style at that time, he had a couple of good games for us.

One thing with those 4 signings you mentioned though they were all free transfers, and on paper Evans, Findlay and Moss had a great pedigree at higher levels.

But we know with Nalis, Hamilton, Peach, Greenwood, Mcavennie, Fenwick, Kilcline, Sanchez, Galvin, Marwood, Seagraves, Elkins, Bullock, King(2nd time), Mutch, Aljofree, Heiselberg, Hall, Junior Lewis, Burton, Howe, Benjamin, Aaron Brown, Ince, et al the list is almost endless in players with tons of experience coming in, looking look good signings on paper and not performing for us.

Every manager in the last 40 years that has had more than 1 season with us can take the blame for at least 1 or 2 of them.


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« Reply #114 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:24:24 »

Don't think there's been a manager in the history of football who hasn't signed a few duffers. They get judged and remembered for how they did on balance - more good signings than bad, and doing the best job they can with the resources available to them. It's why Guardiola is a better manager than Mourinho.
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #115 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:24:58 »

Which, to be fair, is probably as it should be. I'm unconvinced so far if I'm honest and have been critical of some of his man management in particular but still think he could yet get us out of this division and if he does so he deserves all the plaudits that he will get for that. And if he does take us up, there should be no question of his job being safe IMO (mentioning that solely because some have said they'd get rid even if he does take us up)
Exactly as I see it, to sack him after a successful promotion campaign won't happen, Power will give him at least until Christmas if we do go up to see how we do, unless of course we go on a 11 game losing streak ala Bury under him.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #116 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:28:06 »

Macari was doing something right because of the fans calls for his reinstatement in Easter 1985 whereas the jury is still out on Flitcroft in most fans eyes during his first season.

 Maybe he is going to take us from League 2 into the Championship playoffs like Lou did in 5 years.
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Of course we live in a very different world to 85.... at the same stage in Lou's first season, we were 6 points worse off than now, with a negative goal difference, crowds at the CG were down to a couple of thousand... the real hardcore.  However the home form was OK, away terrible, it's the home form people mostly see.

Then there was still a connection  between club and fans... the Supporters club bar, occupying a chunk of the Arkells and being open on non match days etc 

Back then in peak Thatcherism, there was still that sense of collective in Swindon, a working class town proud of its roots and the football club's place therein, but it was in the process of being broken.   So now, it's not let's work together,  club and fans, but rather we only beat lowly Crewe 4-3 let's sack the manager.
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #117 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:28:13 »

Don't think there's been a manager in the history of football who hasn't signed a few duffers. They get judged and remembered for how they did on balance - more good signings than bad, and doing the best job they can with the resources available to them. It's why Guardiola is a better manager than Mourinho.
Oh they do thats football, I was saying that the players mentioned by Reg "should" have been good experienced signings, and that often the more exeperienced they are the less well they do with us.

I don't remember many experienced signings coming in and doing THAT well for us, Steve White, Ian Culverhouse, Mark Walters and Paul Allan and possibly at a push Darren Ward and Alan Reeves (after a poor first season with us).
« Last Edit: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:30:52 by Peter Venkman » Logged

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« Reply #118 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:33:47 »

Ian Woan was decent, always liked him
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #119 on: Monday, January 29, 2018, 20:35:52 »

Exactly as I see it, to sack him after a successful promotion campaign won't happen, Power will give him at least until Christmas if we do go up to see how we do, unless of course we go on a 11 game losing streak ala Bury under him.

If we get promotion under Flitters, I'd imagine he'll attract interest from elsewhere, all our successful gaffers have buggered off, sooner or later.
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