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Author Topic: Where does the north start and the south end?  (Read 928 times)
Posh Red


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« Reply #15 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 14:22:14 »

The North starts at the top of the M25
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bamboonoshoe


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« Reply #16 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 15:39:43 »

I'd generally accept that, although unsure if the good people of Mansfield and Chesterfield would agree.

To be fair (I can't count for all of them) but of the people I know and have met in the aforementioned places, they would gladly accept they are from the North. Chesterfield lot heavily associate themselves as almost being from South Yorkshire, in the same way people from Glossop area generally associate themselves with Manchester. This is all understandable as Chezvegas (yes it's a thing) is only 13 or so miles from Sheff, yet 30ish from Derby.  Likewise, Glossop is only a similar distance to Manc, yet nearly 50 miles from Derby. These are at the extremities of the County but it roots their association with the North more if they're closer to understandably, more Northern Counties.

A similar example is Burton-o-T being around 10 miles from Derby, whilst in Staffordshire (although holding a DE postcode). Yet being 30ish miles away from Stafford. I'm sure there are many more fine examples of Towns being associated with the incorrect County due to Postal Code location or local geography to a larger town/city in another County.
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #17 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 16:06:48 »

For me its a line through roughly Cannock/Telford/Leicester/Peterborough, with all those just squeezing into the South.
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horlock07


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« Reply #18 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 16:51:15 »

To be fair (I can't count for all of them) but of the people I know and have met in the aforementioned places, they would gladly accept they are from the North. Chesterfield lot heavily associate themselves as almost being from South Yorkshire, in the same way people from Glossop area generally associate themselves with Manchester. This is all understandable as Chezvegas (yes it's a thing) is only 13 or so miles from Sheff, yet 30ish from Derby.  Likewise, Glossop is only a similar distance to Manc, yet nearly 50 miles from Derby. These are at the extremities of the County but it roots their association with the North more if they're closer to understandably, more Northern Counties.


I think a lot depends upon where people work, to cite and example you use, I know a load of people from Glossop who all commute into Manchester and thus associate themselves with Manchester rather than Derbyshire. That area of Derbyshire is strange generally, why do you think they filmed (and are filming again - whoop) the League of Gentlemen in Hadfield on the edge of the Peak.

Equally to cite Reg's earlier faux pas regarding Belper that's deepest Derbyshire, but when I am working there, as I am at the moment a lot, as its theoretically the East Midlands you have to deal with the Historic England Office in Northampton rather the considerably nearer one in Manchester. - Actually looking Glossop is in High Peak and thus on that basis would be Northampton office rather than Manchester!


A similar example is Burton-o-T being around 10 miles from Derby, whilst in Staffordshire (although holding a DE postcode). Yet being 30ish miles away from Stafford. I'm sure there are many more fine examples of Towns being associated with the incorrect County due to Postal Code location or local geography to a larger town/city in another County.

I can beat that - Millom (look it up, it really is the back of beyond and then some - actually on recollection wasn't there formerly Millom Red of this Parish, sadly not seen since 2013...) has a Lancaster postcode despite being in Cumbria and 52 tortuous miles from Lancaster. Barrow is the same but at least has the excuse that historically Barra was in Lancashire, Millom was always in Cumberland.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 16:55:28 by horlock07 » Logged
bamboonoshoe


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« Reply #19 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 17:32:42 »

I think a lot depends upon where people work, to cite and example you use, I know a load of people from Glossop who all commute into Manchester and thus associate themselves with Manchester rather than Derbyshire. That area of Derbyshire is strange generally, why do you think they filmed (and are filming again - whoop) the League of Gentlemen in Hadfield on the edge of the Peak.

Equally to cite Reg's earlier faux pas regarding Belper that's deepest Derbyshire, but when I am working there, as I am at the moment a lot, as its theoretically the East Midlands you have to deal with the Historic England Office in Northampton rather the considerably nearer one in Manchester. - Actually looking Glossop is in High Peak and thus on that basis would be Northampton office rather than Manchester!

I can beat that - Millom (look it up, it really is the back of beyond and then some - actually on recollection wasn't there formerly Millom Red of this Parish, sadly not seen since 2013...) has a Lancaster postcode despite being in Cumbria and 52 tortuous miles from Lancaster. Barrow is the same but at least has the excuse that historically Barra was in Lancashire, Millom was always in Cumberland.

Haha, yeah can't wait for LoG. My old IT Teacher knew Mark Gatiss the bloke that played "Mickey Luv" and saw the live show. He used to come in and tell us all about it instead of teaching us. Great stuff!
 
Yeah Glossop and all the High Peak in general gets a bit "forgotten" by the Local Authority. It's a shame because High Peak is conveniently located for prime work (ie Manchester) and stunning countryside (being surrounded by the Peak District), I love it up there, even though i'm not that far away from the PD myself. It's still governed by Derbyshire County Council for certain services; interestingly the County Town of Derbyshire is.....Matlock. That would make you think they'd be more helpful towards High Peak, Derbyshire Dales(especially as Matlock is in this area) & North East Derbyshire, alas they don't. Glossop also falls under the services of East Midlands Air Ambulance, which is fairly crazy. Sometimes I think it would do well to look at things economically and  have more "cross County services". I'm sure a fair bit of money could be saved from lost time, if one services is closer regardless of it being in a different County. On the whole if I generally shop at Tesco's and there's one 5 miles away i'm not going to go to the one located 25 miles away.

That's mad with Millom. Aye, Barrow makes sense like you say. With Millom that's got to be a constituency thing surely? Moving boundaries et al. It's probably one of the most extreme cases for Postcode to County location ratio?
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« Reply #20 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 17:41:01 »

Cheltenham/Gloucester. that's the boundary of civilization on the western frontier.

there is no Midlands. it's what northerners make up to make themselves feel better. the facts are irrefutable, funny accents and odd food... Northern

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« Reply #21 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 18:04:38 »

Cheltenham/Gloucester. that's the boundary of civilization on the western frontier.

there is no Midlands. it's what northerners make up to make themselves feel better. the facts are irrefutable, funny accents and odd food... Northern

next.

 Cheesy Cheesy Brilliant!
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sonicyouth


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« Reply #22 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 18:09:14 »

Civilisation exists only within zone 1. Anything outside of this - north, south, whatever - is unimportant

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Ardiles


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« Reply #23 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 18:15:56 »

A similar example is Burton-o-T being around 10 miles from Derby, whilst in Staffordshire (although holding a DE postcode). Yet being 30ish miles away from Stafford. I'm sure there are many more fine examples of Towns being associated with the incorrect County due to Postal Code location or local geography to a larger town/city in another County.

This section of your post (not the main point, I appreciate) reminded me of a rant of mine from 2011.  I still feel the same.  Stuff like this matters.  Local government & boundaries are such a dog's breakfast in this country that it has a significant detrimental effect on sense of place/belonging.

How Wiltshire are you??

All this Wiltshire talk has reminded me of one of my bugbears...the way politicians (and the Royal Mail, for that matter) keep buggering about with counties and ancient sub-divisions.  Because, of course, in a political sense Swindon hasn't even been in Wiltshire since 1997.

No other country seems to do this.  In France, the départements are sacrosanct.  In the US, it doesn't matter whether you're in a sprawling city or a rural heartland, you'll know exactly which state you're in - and you'll probably be proud of it too.

But here, you're sort of in Wiltshire if you're in Swindon (if there was a 'ducks for cover' smiley, I'd add it here) and sort of not; Bournemouth folk used to be Hampshire, but they're now Dorset; if you're in Kingston on Thames, you're Surrey (to the Royal Mail) or London (if you'd like to vote in a Mayoral election); and Berkshire no longer exists at all in the political sense...which just compounds the insult of the 1970s when half of it got nicked by Oxfordshire.

It's all wrong.  And it matters (I think, anyway) because if local boundaries get blurred, then so do local identities.  A sense of place is important.

End of rant.  I think I feel better.
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horlock07


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« Reply #24 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 18:42:00 »

This section of your post (not the main point, I appreciate) reminded me of a rant of mine from 2011.  I still feel the same.  Stuff like this matters.  Local government & boundaries are such a dog's breakfast in this country that it has a significant detrimental effect on sense of place/belonging.

How Wiltshire are you??


Happy to be corrected as not been back for 15+ years but Swindon is in Wiltshire isn't it, just Swindon is a unitary authority for governance purposes and thus takes on roles that a County Council would, if that's the case its no different to off the top of my head Blackburn (Lancashire) and Wazza (which is in Cheshire but the Cheshire set will kill you for reminding them!)

One thing that I could never get my head round when I was a kid was the sig leaving Lechlade that said Welcome to Thamesdown, what was that all about!



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RobertT


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« Reply #25 on: Wednesday, November 22, 2017, 22:12:08 »

Thamesdown was the Borough Council responsible for Swindon and other smaller "towns", it has since been usurped by the Swindon Unitary Authority, so all those places now get to be in Swindon as well.
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Charlie Henry


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« Reply #26 on: Thursday, November 23, 2017, 00:42:12 »

Surely the north starts at the railway line??
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #27 on: Thursday, November 23, 2017, 10:55:21 »

Thamesdown was the Borough Council responsible for Swindon and other smaller "towns", it has since been usurped by the Swindon Unitary Authority, so all those places now get to be in Swindon as well.

Some of us are still trying to come to terms with the amalgamation of Old (sometimes known as High) Swindon and New Swindon in 1900.
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« Reply #28 on: Thursday, November 23, 2017, 11:08:06 »

I can remember when West Swindon was fields Reg, but I can't remember when the bottom of Vic Hill was  Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: Thursday, November 23, 2017, 11:55:34 »

I can remember when Dorcan and Liden were fields.
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