Poll
Question: Which Party Will You Be Voting For?
Conservative - 54 (30.5%)
Labour - 63 (35.6%)
Liberal Democrat - 29 (16.4%)
UKIP - 6 (3.4%)
Green - 5 (2.8%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Other - 2 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 9 (5.1%)
Spoiled Ballot - 9 (5.1%)
Total Voters: 153

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Author Topic: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?  (Read 195766 times)
Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #525 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 19:45:20 »

No, anyone associated with the use of terror should be interned indefinitely, fuck human rights they lost that right many moons ago
Here here
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #526 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:20:09 »

I think there is a case to round up all of those on the watch lists and set up a British Guantanemo Bay.
There's 1000s being "watched" in some way or another, most have done nothing wrong, by the very nature of it - the police will look at someone they think is dangerous and then look at his family, friends. associates etc. They'll all get looked at, they'll all be on a list. Which makes good policing sense, and no harm done until you start presuming guilt purely on that basis. What you're proposing is locking up without trial (or even much evidence) 1000s of people, most of whom will be innocent
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StfcRusty

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« Reply #527 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:27:32 »

Here here

"Hear, hear", it's "hear, hear" albeit "shame, shame" would be my choice of response
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #528 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:27:59 »

There's 1000s being "watched" in some way or another, most have done nothing wrong, by the very nature of it - the police will look at someone they think is dangerous and then look at his family, friends. associates etc. They'll all get looked at, they'll all be on a list. Which makes good policing sense, and no harm done until you start presuming guilt purely on that basis. What you're proposing is locking up without trial (or even much evidence) 1000s of people, most of whom will be innocent
The Muslim community are doing their bit. They are bringing these nutters to the attention of the authorities but there are too many to keep a proper eye on. If it means thousands then so be it. If they are innocent then they go.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #529 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:31:31 »

The Muslim community are doing their bit. They are bringing these nutters to the attention of the authorities but there are too many to keep a proper eye on. If it means thousands then so be it. If they are innocent then they go.
You're missing the point, it's not just people who are actively under suspicion who get on a watch list. Friends/family/associates/work colleagues all get looked at, that's why there's thousands there. Which, as I say, makes sense from a policing/intelligence-gathering perspective, very different matter if you're proposing internment without trial on that basis (leaving aside the implications for any concept of a free society of doing so)
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #530 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:38:16 »

You're missing the point, it's not just people who are actively under suspicion who get on a watch list. Friends/family/associates/work colleagues all get looked at, that's why there's thousands there. Which, as I say, makes sense from a policing/intelligence-gathering perspective, very different matter if you're proposing internment without trial on that basis (leaving aside the implications for any concept of a free society of doing so)
But you have the person of interest. These are the ones I would lock up....and yes without trial initially. I wouldn't have any qualms about it at all. You can still be a free and tolerant society.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #531 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:42:31 »

But you have the person of interest. These are the ones I would lock up....and yes without trial initially. I wouldn't have any qualms about it at all. You can still be a free and tolerant society.
Well, that's just a case of arresting them and charging them with something. It's called being on remand.
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #532 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:50:00 »

Well, that's just a case of arresting them and charging them with something. It's called being on remand.
Get them off the street. Keep them away from their mates. There are too many of these fucking wankers sticking 2 fingers up at us. Take them out of action. I would do the same for IRA, unionists, animal liberation etc. The burden of proof would be significantly lower than now. These people have no respect for others. I have no respect for their rights.
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pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #533 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 20:56:26 »

Get them off the street. Keep them away from their mates. There are too many of these fucking wankers sticking 2 fingers up at us. Take them out of action. I would do the same for IRA
We did it for the IRA, or people the police or army said might be IRA, in the 1970s. Of course most weren't but hundreds of young Catholics were interned and a whole generation of youth was radicalised as a result. It was widely described by both the IRA leadership and, later, British politicians as "the best recruiting sergeant the IRA ever had"
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chalkies_shorts

« Reply #534 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 21:08:38 »

They don't seem to have a problem with recruitment
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Johnny Reeves

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« Reply #535 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 22:00:35 »

Here here,whoops hear hear
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Nemo
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« Reply #536 on: Thursday, May 25, 2017, 07:10:03 »

I don't think too many people would object to the general principle of locking up proper wrong 'uns. The problem is that you have to trust both the police and government to a) be competent enough to get the right people and b) moral enough not to misuse the powers

As basically no government in history has been both psychic and without corruption, having to actyally charge someone with a crime to lock them up beyond an initial term is a sensible check and balance against a totalitarian state. The police already have significant powers under various terrorism acts to detain people without trial and keep them under surveillance that go beyond what is available in most western countries.

Ultimately these kind of attacks are fucking awful, but a huge part of why we find them so shocking is that they are very, very rare. Our police and security services for the most part do an excellent job, and whilst it's basically impossible to stop anyone slipping through the net, instituting a draconian police state is probably not going to help (I wouldn't have used the qualifier, but it's hard to judge) and, if we accept that in the main these attacks are done as much to scare the populace (hence terrorism) as they are to kill and maim the direct victims, then a sign that these attacks are successful. I can't imagine that would do anything other than encourage more absolute pricks.
« Last Edit: Thursday, May 25, 2017, 07:15:58 by Nemo » Logged
Pax Romana

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« Reply #537 on: Thursday, May 25, 2017, 07:25:07 »

Agreed.  There is a real risk of "Dangerous Dogs" syndrome here.

With a bit of luck UKIP will ride to the rescue.  Apparently their manifesto (sic) is due out today.  It will doubtless be so revolting in it's extreme excesses that it will help the rest of us to pause and reflect whether we really want to play the terrorist's game for them.

Hopefully UKIP's last contribution to the country they love so much before they disappear down the toilet.
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Peter Venkman
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« Reply #538 on: Thursday, May 25, 2017, 07:39:02 »

Hopefully UKIP's last contribution to the country they love so much before they disappear down the toilet.
Absolutely.
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Only a fool does not know when to hold his tongue.
pauld
Aaron Aardvark

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« Reply #539 on: Thursday, May 25, 2017, 07:49:26 »

Hopefully UKIP's last contribution to the country they love so much before they disappear down the toilet.
UKIP are a symptom. Until the mainstream political parties address the issues that make UKIP appeal to a substantial part of the electorate, those problems will not go away. They may well get flushed but they will just be replaced, probably by Farage/Banks' UKIP 2.0 (Patriotic Alliance, IIRC, was their working title) which will be slicker, better funded and well rehearsed having had one to go to practice. So it won't be the end if UKIP ends, v 2 could be even more dangerous if anything. If mainstream politics wants to see the back of hard right populism, mainstream politicians need to stop ignoring the people who are voting for them and understand why they are voting for them
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