Poll
Question: Which Party Will You Be Voting For?
Conservative - 54 (30.5%)
Labour - 63 (35.6%)
Liberal Democrat - 29 (16.4%)
UKIP - 6 (3.4%)
Green - 5 (2.8%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Other - 2 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 9 (5.1%)
Spoiled Ballot - 9 (5.1%)
Total Voters: 153

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Author Topic: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?  (Read 195747 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #495 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 14:59:06 »

US media reporting (thanks to US intel leaking like a sieve) that he had a bank card in his pocket. Which unless you've gone out of your way to clean yourself of ID, most of us would.

And survived despite being immediately adjacent to a bomb going off?

In terms of monitoring those on the list, the fact that a lad popping back and forth to Libya and Syria doesn't seem to be getting much surveillance does worry, and its not going to get any better http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/police-cuts-policy-amber-rudd-tories-conservatives-election-2017-labour-officers-a7712646.html
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pauld
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« Reply #496 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:05:24 »

And survived despite being immediately adjacent to a bomb going off?
Yes. People always assume that anything immediately adjacent to an explosion is obliterated but it's rarely the case. People will be killed by the blast and objects broken up obviously but they're not obliterated. There's shit loads of examples/data about it.
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horlock07

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« Reply #497 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:13:45 »

Yes. People always assume that anything immediately adjacent to an explosion is obliterated but it's rarely the case. People will be killed by the blast and objects broken up obviously but they're not obliterated. There's shit loads of examples/data about it.

Watch it, with that level of knowledge you will have MI5 round...

For the record I am not a conspiracy theorist, although I know of at least one case in the UK where the public account given by the government is bollocks and the conspiracy theorists are not a million miles away.
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pauld
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« Reply #498 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:31:52 »

Watch it, with that level of knowledge you will have MI5 round...

For the record I am not a conspiracy theorist, although I know of at least one case in the UK where the public account given by the government is bollocks and the conspiracy theorists are not a million miles away.
Oh I'm quite sure there's loads but there's also far more examples of bollocks conspiracy theories, usually put out by people with their own agenda to push (not you/anyone here btw). I tend to the view of going for least complex/most likely explanation first.
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pauld
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« Reply #499 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:32:42 »

Watch it, with that level of knowledge you will have MI5 round...
Think I read it in the Telegraph initially IIRC. So it was probably them that put that in there in the 1st place Smiley
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Flashheart

« Reply #500 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:46:06 »

One can easily imagine how a card would get little to no damage.

A body would provide resistance to the energy of a blast and absorb a lot of that energy. A card could just get blown away. I expect our resident fireman would know more.
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skiptotheLouMacari

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« Reply #501 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 15:58:17 »

I'm not fully up on the doctrine, but I'm pretty sure they don't do ID checks at the gates of the afterlife Smiley

No we all know they don't check your credentials at the pearly gates, but neither are an untold number of Virgins stood waiting for you.
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skiptotheLouMacari

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« Reply #502 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 16:02:48 »

As he was born here that's not really relevant in this case,too many seem to think that leaving the EU will reduce immigration from the Asian sub continent.

No, not at all. He is one of many home grown fundamentalists, but where do we draw the line?
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #503 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:02:41 »

Whilst  I agree an I.D card may not necessarily blow into tiny pieces on impact, the heat generated from the blast would be enough to melt the card seeing as molten metal from shrapnel was found at the scene (nails, nuts, bolts etc) but hey, i'm not getting into ballistics and hydrodynamics here.

The point that seems to be being missed altogether is "Why would you take I.D to an organised terror attempt?" especially as you would be given a heads up likely some time before the date. I hardly think they organise these things in a way that goes something like;

  "Hey Jonny, in 2hrs can you do me a favour?"
"yes mate, what's that?"
  "Suicide job mate"
"Oh yeah no probs. Got to nip to Dominos first and pay on my card, then i'll nip down."
  "Cool beans. Don't forget your Driving licence, they sometimes ask for I.D"
"Oh cheers man. Thanks for the heads up. You're too good to me"

That's the point, why on earth would you. While a "trademark" may be left, similarly with say murderers but they never leave their I.D at the scene...

....unless they're completely stupid or ridiculously narcissistic but even then.


PaulD, anyone but Katie Hopkins man. Wink FWIW i'm very pro immigration and tbh democracy is  being dismantled by the Tories as we speak  Soapy Tit Wank Pint
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
Flashheart

« Reply #504 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:10:56 »

Why would they not carry ID? It's not as though they have to worry about being caught. I expect in some countries being stopped and not having idea could really fuck up a suicide bomber's plans. They're going to be identified one way or another before long anyway.

In this case it wasn't even actual ID, but a bank card from which he could be identified.
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skiptotheLouMacari

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« Reply #505 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:30:05 »

Whilst  I agree an I.D card may not necessarily blow into tiny pieces on impact, the heat generated from the blast would be enough to melt the card seeing as molten metal from shrapnel was found at the scene (nails, nuts, bolts etc) but hey, i'm not getting into ballistics and hydrodynamics here.

The point that seems to be being missed altogether is "Why would you take I.D to an organised terror attempt?" especially as you would be given a heads up likely some time before the date. I hardly think they organise these things in a way that goes something like;

  "Hey Jonny, in 2hrs can you do me a favour?"
"yes mate, what's that?"
  "Suicide job mate"
"Oh yeah no probs. Got to nip to Dominos first and pay on my card, then i'll nip down."
  "Cool beans. Don't forget your Driving licence, they sometimes ask for I.D"
"Oh cheers man. Thanks for the heads up. You're too good to me"

That's the point, why on earth would you. While a "trademark" may be left, similarly with say murderers but they never leave their I.D at the scene...

....unless they're completely stupid or ridiculously narcissistic but even then.


PaulD, anyone but Katie Hopkins man. Wink FWIW i'm very pro immigration and tbh democracy is  being dismantled by the Tories as we speak  Soapy Tit Wank Pint

These aren't typical murderers, they're happy to be named and shamed after the event. It's two fingers to the establishment who didn't track them or know the plan.
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Flashheart

« Reply #506 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:32:17 »

I'd go further and suggest they might want to be identified. They think they're martyrs. Heros, even.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #507 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:32:55 »

Why would they not carry ID? It's not as though they have to worry about being caught. I expect in some countries being stopped and not having idea could really fuck up a suicide bomber's plans. They're going to be identified one way or another before long anyway.

In this case it wasn't even actual ID, but a bank card from which he could be identified.

Very much so. If the plot is foiled, they don't go through with it or a malfunction. Being nation specific re: ID. It's not obligatory to carry I.D with you in the U.K. By I.D I mean anything with your name on. Fuck me, we going to find out he'd has his Gala Bingo card on him and won £250 the night before (i'm being a tit). It's not obligatory here, so that is the point i'm making.

Granted they may be identified at some point but even dental records probably wouldn't help as many people aren't even registered. They know who it is more so because the services knew that this guy was going to do it. That's the saddest thing in this all.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #508 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:35:07 »

I'd go further and suggest they might want to be identified. They think they're martyrs. Heros, even.

Granted; and while there is evidence in cases to suggest this. I also think it's is more glamourised than the actual reality of it. Some films and dramas don't really help this.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

______________________________________________________________

'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
horlock07

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Re:
« Reply #509 on: Wednesday, May 24, 2017, 17:37:44 »

Whilst I hate to add to the conspiracy, if there is a network as Mrs Rudd suggests would it not lesson the chance of the wider group being quickly rumbled if the bomber does not make himself readily identifiable?

It's being suggested that various members of the community had reported their fears in the past directly to the police which doesn't say much for the monitoring, although will piss off a lot of those who like to roll out the line that the community are involved if they don't report radicalisation?

Who knows, although on a related issue I do wonder whether seeing armed troops in downing Street has rather more to do with Mrs Mays authoritarian fantasy than an operational need?

Sent from my Hudl 2
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