Poll
Question: Which Party Will You Be Voting For?
Conservative - 54 (30.5%)
Labour - 63 (35.6%)
Liberal Democrat - 29 (16.4%)
UKIP - 6 (3.4%)
Green - 5 (2.8%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Other - 2 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 9 (5.1%)
Spoiled Ballot - 9 (5.1%)
Total Voters: 153

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Author Topic: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?  (Read 195871 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #405 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 19:52:52 »

Ofcourse this election is about Brexit. Can you imagine Corbyn and his racist side kick Diane Abbot getting a decent deal for Britain 😳 Not a chance in hell. Many people will vote Tory in this election and probably never vote for them again, they really are the only party that can play hardball with E.U Gestapo, who intend to play 'hardball' with us.

I've no idea how Corbyn intends to pay for the ridiculous things he's been coming out with recently. Maybe labour really do intend to pay new police officers £30 a month.....
It intrigues me that Diane Abbott gets under the skin of right wing voters so much, just cannot put my finger on why she irritates them so much?
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mystical_goat

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« Reply #406 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 20:13:42 »

 Grin
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #407 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 21:12:10 »

I know this is a little off topic but I find people don't properly understand "tax hikes" and this hopefully explains that it doesn't do as much damage to your (average) take home salary as many would think. There's a lot of piping up to be done when "tax rises" get mentioned. I really don't have a massive problem with it. Yes it's "your money" and "how dare they" but let's just consider a small amount of facts here.

E.g

The average full-time, tax paying worker earned c£28k in 2016[1], for this e.g we'll use £25k.

Now consider that the first £11k at present is exempt of taxation. It leaves us with a taxable £14k.

Currently 20% is the income tax for that figure. Which equates to £2800.
This leaves us with £11.2k - c£2050 in NIC's + the £11k (tax exempt) =
£20.15k after NIC or the average annual Net pay.[2]


Lets consider the government levy a 2% income tax rise across the board. Working with the average income that would be just another £280.

£280 into the Government purse pppa.
Consider that £280 pp would be deducted;
 £1.08p per working day   
 £5.39p "                 week              
 £23.33 per working month.

Now consider on average c30 million people pay tax in the UK, of which 4.4million will pay at the higher rate (not the additional rate).[3]
£280
x
30 million
=
£8,400,000,000
or £8.4bn per annum.

That is an effective way of raising funds for the public purse, whilst also not effectively a massive amount to the individual taxpayer. People don't like it but surely we must all agree that if we want more spent on our public services then we must be expected to pay a little more in tax and I really only mean, a little.

I've inserted some references for some of you fellow geeks and others who complain about sources etc. I'm sure you'll find it as compelling as I did...

[1]https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2016provisionalresults "see section 3."

[2]http://www.netsalarycalculator.co.uk/25000-after-tax/

[3]https://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn09.pdf "see page 8"
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
Nemo
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« Reply #408 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 10:18:57 »

In the spirit of trying to present things apolitically for people who genuinely haven't made their minds up, here's a bit of information in what's in Labour's manifesto around tax and spend - which is obviously important as one of the main points against Corbyn/McDonnell is that they'd spend more than they raise.

Labour's revenue raising measures here:


The headlines are 45% income tax for those earning over 80k and 50% for over 123k, increased corporation tax and then smaller measures around VAT on private school fees, tax on soft drinks, scrapping the married persons' tax allowance and reversing cuts to capital gains and inheritance which have already been announced.

Then spending that money:


Headlines are spending about 25% of that money scrapping University tuition fees entirely, then big chunks for increasing schools funding, the NHS, social security and public sector pay rises.

At the moment, their numbers seem to assume that renationalisations won't cost a penny to the tax payer (willing to be corrected on that) and leave out the cost of hiring 3000 prison guards committed to elsewhere.

As this is the first major manifesto to launch, it's not possibly to compare this with Tory/Lib Dem plans yet but it doesn't look completely insane on the face of it. Devil in the detail no doubt as always with manifestos.

Personally (and here I'll leave behind trying to be neutral) I don't like University tuition fees, but that seems like a lot of money to commit to one policy - I'd much rather see that money spent on Sure Start and programmes for younger people in education if the goal is social mobility - can't help but feel that by the age of 18 a lot of the damage is done.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 10:22:24 by Nemo » Logged
BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #409 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 11:37:27 »

In the spirit of trying to present things apolitically for people who genuinely haven't made their minds up, here's a bit of information in what's in Labour's manifesto around tax and spend - which is obviously important as one of the main points against Corbyn/McDonnell is that they'd spend more than they raise.

Labour's revenue raising measures here:


The headlines are 45% income tax for those earning over 80k and 50% for over 123k, increased corporation tax and then smaller measures around VAT on private school fees, tax on soft drinks, scrapping the married persons' tax allowance and reversing cuts to capital gains and inheritance which have already been announced.

Then spending that money:


Headlines are spending about 25% of that money scrapping University tuition fees entirely, then big chunks for increasing schools funding, the NHS, social security and public sector pay rises.

At the moment, their numbers seem to assume that renationalisation won't cost a penny to the tax payer (willing to be corrected on that) and leave out the cost of hiring 3000 prison guards committed to elsewhere.

As this is the first major manifesto to launch, it's not possible to compare this with Tory/Lib Dem plans yet but it doesn't look completely insane on the face of it. Devil in the detail no doubt as always with manifestos.

Personally (and here I'll leave behind trying to be neutral) I don't like University tuition fees, but that seems like a lot of money to commit to one policy - I'd much rather see that money spent on Sure Start and programmes for younger people in education if the goal is social mobility - can't help but feel that by the age of 18 a lot of the damage is done.

Good work Nemo. As you say, on the surface it seems to pretty much add up. It's a fair manifesto with a little more spending than recouping (If we factor in a renationalisation cost and 3k prison guards) but a Labour Government will always invest in the state so that's nothing new or shocking. As stated in my previous post, if the Government levied a 2% income tax rise for all 30 million tax payers then that would on average raise £8.4bn per year, some £42bn per 5 year term.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
Batch
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« Reply #410 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 12:08:00 »

some £42bn per 5 year term.

Blimey, that's nearly half the Brexit bill
Wink
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pauld
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« Reply #411 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 12:27:29 »

Blimey, that's nearly half the Brexit bill
Wink
Isn't that "disgraced and then unaccountably recalled" minister Liam Fox's nickname?
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #412 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 14:57:04 »

Blimey, that's nearly half the Brexit bill
Wink

Indeed, and it just shows how little it would take to pay off in a country as wealthy as ours. Wink
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
RobertT

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« Reply #413 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 15:00:03 »

The issue that any rise in basic Income Tax levels faces is that many people resent having to pay it all.  A significant proportion of the country would happily get rid of income tax because they associate the spend with things they don't see direct personal value in - at least not today!

It's like the spending argument - the majority of welfare spending (that which causes most split) is actuall Pension and Social Care for the elderly.  Everything else is swamped by it, but we'll no doubt have debates about Disability, Tax Credits and the like.

You can essentially boil it down to two very simple areas of focus to actually get finances under control - increase the retirement age (and take the flak from the older people) or increase direct taxation (and take a hit from those in their peak earning years).

I'd hazard a guess that moving the retirement age to 70 would slash the budget, or free-up resources to spent on all the smaller projects, like the NHS.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #414 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 15:23:10 »

 The Tories have finessed the Social Care budget, by as in Victorian times moving it onto the Parish.

 
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #415 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 15:27:09 »

The issue that any rise in basic Income Tax levels faces is that many people resent having to pay it all.  A significant proportion of the country would happily get rid of income tax because they associate the spend with things they don't see direct personal value in - at least not today!

It's like the spending argument - the majority of welfare spending (that which causes most split) is actuall Pension and Social Care for the elderly.  Everything else is swamped by it, but we'll no doubt have debates about Disability, Tax Credits and the like.

You can essentially boil it down to two very simple areas of focus to actually get finances under control - increase the retirement age (and take the flak from the older people) or increase direct taxation (and take a hit from those in their peak earning years).

I'd hazard a guess that moving the retirement age to 70 would slash the budget, or free-up resources to spent on all the smaller projects, like the NHS.

This is the trouble though. People want their cake and eat it. Which ok, is fine but if the government turned round and said "ok, keep all of your earnings but you have to pay for and source everything. Everything."

 Now people like keeping hold of their money, the extra greedy would spend it all on themselves and nothing would get done or it would be severely fractured indeed. Admittedly some communities would thrive, especially where all are pushing in the same direction. Majority wise though people would refuse to put in and then still complain. It's basic, in order to have even better services people must be prepared to pay. Taxation is basically insurance in a different suit.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 15:30:06 by bamboonoshoe » Logged


'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
RobertT

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« Reply #416 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 16:34:19 »

You may think like that, just pointing out the plenty do not - coming from a perspective of thinking your view is right is why people become so flabbergasted at the opposition.  BTW, if I was still paying in, I'd be happy with both a tax rise and raising the retirement age.  Reduce VAT and quite frankly corporation tax is a joke anyway, so may as well slash it to get some positive PR.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #417 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 18:12:41 »

Quote
You may think like that, just pointing out the plenty do not - coming from a perspective of thinking your view is right is why people become so flabbergasted at the opposition.

Totally agree. It's kind of sad though. Whatever happened to "you get back what you put in".  Not necessarily thinking my view is right (I know it is Wink ) and i'm all for helping those who need it. I don't earn very much myself but i'm of the opinion that income is all relative to how you spend the Benjamins. As the saying goes..."charity doesn't start at home, it starts where it is needed."

^*Side note: Immigration; Most people have issues with immigration (generally down to media and government scaremongering) saying "it costs us too much", "we can't afford it." etc. However, according to www.unhcr.org,uk if we factored the 2016 figures of 117k refugees and c33k asylum seekers of which the asylum seekers are not allowed to work so can receive £37pw in benefits. Even if we apply that to the refugee and asylum figures combined (c150k x £37 x 52 = c£288m divide by 30mil taxpayers =£9.62 divide by 365 = £0.026p per person per day.) Less than 3p per day. I call it the "Coffee cup change" statistic. Being many people throw their 5p or less change back to the tax avoiding Starbucks (ironic huh?) once they've received their coffee/tea/frappe/whatever. When people say we "can't afford it" I do have to laugh. Remember the <3p is an over estimated figure by nearly five times the amount so we could easily divide 3p by 5 and the asylum seeker actual cost per person is 0.5p per day.

Apologies for my ramble on.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
Simon Pieman
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« Reply #418 on: Tuesday, May 16, 2017, 19:53:16 »

Funny you mention that as there was talk the lib dems would impose a 5p coffee cup charge like the plastic bag charge
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #419 on: Wednesday, May 17, 2017, 00:09:13 »

Funny you mention that as there was talk the lib dems would impose a 5p coffee cup charge like the plastic bag charge

Oh really, that passed me by so total coincidence.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

______________________________________________________________

'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
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