Poll
Question: Which Party Will You Be Voting For?
Conservative - 54 (30.5%)
Labour - 63 (35.6%)
Liberal Democrat - 29 (16.4%)
UKIP - 6 (3.4%)
Green - 5 (2.8%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Other - 2 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 9 (5.1%)
Spoiled Ballot - 9 (5.1%)
Total Voters: 153

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Author Topic: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?  (Read 195751 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #390 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 10:39:07 »

Having worked within Network Rail I couldn't think of anything worst than bringing the railways back into public ownership, the inefficiencies are staggering. Still catching up with decades of underinvestment from when it was last publicly operated by BR. Having the TOC's in place at least leads to some investment and forces them to deliver due to the financial penalties for overrunning possessions and delay minutes.
Just need to look at the mess Network Rail are making of the Great Western electrification, can only imagine the chaos if they ran the trains as well!

As Network Rail is a QUANGO and ultimately responsible to parliament is it not a national company anyway.

As for the ToC's they have hardly been a resounding success as we are subsidising them to a greater level than BR ever were in the good old days (which weren't very good!)and essentially just paying the private sector to run train services?

What Labour seem to have missed is that whilst in theory one could renationalise the ToC fairly easy and cheaply by letting the franchises cease and not renewing (although there would be a complete bun fight over the terms and conditions of the various staff which would keep the Unions busy for years) what they haven't accounted for is the rolling stock which is all in private hands, not owned by the company operating the trains, for instance I think most of the GWR stock is actually owned by Angel Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Trains and buying all the stock back is going to cost a small fortune.

Like so many Labour ideas looks good at first glance but can it actually be delivered and what does it actually achieve?

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theakston2k

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« Reply #391 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 11:14:11 »

As Network Rail is a QUANGO and ultimately responsible to parliament is it not a national company anyway.
What Labour seem to have missed is that whilst in theory one could renationalise the ToC fairly easy and cheaply by letting the franchises cease and not renewing (although there would be a complete bun fight over the terms and conditions of the various staff which would keep the Unions busy for years) what they haven't accounted for is the rolling stock which is all in private hands, not owned by the company operating the trains, for instance I think most of the GWR stock is actually owned by Angel Trains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Trains and buying all the stock back is going to cost a small fortune.

As for the ToC's they have hardly been a resounding success as we are subsidising them to a greater level than BR ever were in the good old days (which weren't very good!)and essentially just paying the private sector to run train services?


Like so many Labour ideas looks good at first glance but can it actually be delivered and what does it actually achieve?


In 2014 NR became a public sector body so to all intents and purposes it's a National Company but that is by for by.  When you look back at the likes of British Rail, CEGB etc they were grossly inefficient, poorly managed and allowed national infrastructure to deteriorate to the extent that even today they are still undoing decades of neglect.
A lot of NR are ex British Rail and still operate in an antiquated way where they think they have access to bottomless pits of money and that just doesn't work and NR have already racked up debts in the region of £40 billion as a result.  If a company is nationalised it still needs to operate like a private company and deliver efficiencies and value for money and in my experience of the public sector this is never the case.

The cost to do it would take decades to pay back partly because as you say the rolling stock is privately owned. With all the new stock just ordered from the likes of Hitachi, Siemens and Bombardier on long term leases this isn't going to change any time soon. 

It may work in other countries but it never worked here under BR and factoring the cost/benefit I just don't see what it would actually deliver here other than a huge initial increase in our national debt.

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horlock07

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« Reply #392 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 11:43:45 »

We have finally had some bumf through the door this morning, the Tory one makes interesting reading as seems to be entirely based around Theresa May and if she is their best asset god help them and by extension us....

Couple of things caught my eye....

It is claiming explicitly that the deficit is down by almost two thirds - now I suppose by not giving a starting point that open to interpretation, but hasn't debt gone through the roof since 2010 and thus isn't this a blatant lie? They are also going to take back control of our borders, whilst various party members admit on the TV that this is not really going to happen, ensure we leave in an orderly and smooth way - again evidence suggests whatever the deal it will be neither smooth nor orderly, and finally they commit to provide as much clarity at every stage of the process which kind of contradicts the attempts to keep parliament out of the entire process.

Very telling that, if this is to be believed, the Tories conclude this election is about Theresa May and Brexit and nothing else! What it is entirely lacking in is any substance or policies..... Much like Mrs May herself really.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #393 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 11:49:53 »

We have finally had some bumf through the door this morning, the Tory one makes interesting reading as seems to be entirely based around Theresa May and if she is their best asset god help them and by extension us....

Couple of things caught my eye....

It is claiming explicitly that the deficit is down by almost two thirds - now I suppose by not giving a starting point that open to interpretation, but hasn't debt gone through the roof since 2010 and thus isn't this a blatant lie? They are also going to take back control of our borders, whilst various party members admit on the TV that this is not really going to happen, ensure we leave in an orderly and smooth way - again evidence suggests whatever the deal it will be neither smooth nor orderly, and finally they commit to provide as much clarity at every stage of the process which kind of contradicts the attempts to keep parliament out of the entire process.

Very telling that, if this is to be believed, the Tories conclude this election is about Theresa May and Brexit and nothing else! What it is entirely lacking in is any substance or policies..... Much like Mrs May herself really.

It's fair to say this election is about Brexit. My gut feeling is that May won't want to tank the UK economy...so some kind of Norway style deal will have to be agreed. Her problem is going to be selling this to the UKIP wing of her party
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pauld
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« Reply #394 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 11:54:34 »

Very telling that, if this is to be believed, the Tories conclude this election is about Theresa May and Brexit and nothing else! What it is entirely lacking in is any substance or policies..... Much like Mrs May herself really.
There was a programme on R4 over the weekend about the election campaigns to date, which I only caught part of, but was basically saying exactly this - May has decided she sells well but the "Nasty Party" doesn't so she's decided to conduct the most presidential campaign since Blair and ask people to vote for her, not the Tories. According to the programme (sorry can't remember what it was, but think it was on Sat morning IIRC), polling shows that people don't like her, but they do think she'll do a good job, esp around Brexit. Despite the evidence to date.
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Samdy Gray
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« Reply #395 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:18:51 »

It is claiming explicitly that the deficit is down by almost two thirds - now I suppose by not giving a starting point that open to interpretation, but hasn't debt gone through the roof since 2010 and thus isn't this a blatant lie?

https://fullfact.org/economy/deficit-down-two-thirds/

BBC article on debt vs deficit
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dogs

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« Reply #396 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:32:03 »

Another thing about the national debt, I'm sure the rise to the current level, from £1 trillion in 2010, was inevitable due to the annual interest servicing it and this was predicted to happen regardless to who was in power later in the decade.
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horlock07

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« Reply #397 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:35:56 »

There was a programme on R4 over the weekend about the election campaigns to date, which I only caught part of, but was basically saying exactly this - May has decided she sells well but the "Nasty Party" doesn't so she's decided to conduct the most presidential campaign since Blair and ask people to vote for her, not the Tories. According to the programme (sorry can't remember what it was, but think it was on Sat morning IIRC), polling shows that people don't like her, but they do think she'll do a good job, esp around Brexit. Despite the evidence to date.

Interestingly the leaflet has Theresa May in capitals on the front along with a picture but no mention of the Tory Party at all.

Its also completely lacking in any policies and just basically states that it will be shit if Corbyn gets in!
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horlock07

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« Reply #398 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 12:36:37 »

Another thing about the national debt, I'm sure the rise to the current level, from £1 trillion in 2010, was inevitable due to the annual interest servicing it and this was predicted to happen regardless to who was in power later in the decade.

I would suspect the trashing of the value of the pound over the last 12 months hasn't helped much either?
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Chubbs

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« Reply #399 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 16:57:59 »

Hands up who can afford to take 12 months off work unpaid?
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horlock07

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« Reply #400 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 17:02:59 »

Hands up who can afford to take 12 months off work unpaid?

Tim Sherwood?
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hobodan

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« Reply #401 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 19:34:19 »

Ofcourse this election is about Brexit. Can you imagine Corbyn and his racist side kick Diane Abbot getting a decent deal for Britain 😳 Not a chance in hell. Many people will vote Tory in this election and probably never vote for them again, they really are the only party that can play hardball with E.U Gestapo, who intend to play 'hardball' with us.

I've no idea how Corbyn intends to pay for the ridiculous things he's been coming out with recently. Maybe labour really do intend to pay new police officers £30 a month.....
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Saxondale

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« Reply #402 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 19:39:11 »

Ive an idea.  Why not wait for the costed manifestos to come out.  Then perhaps you can make an informed decision.
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« Reply #403 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 19:39:49 »

The best thing about this election (in admittedly a piss poor field) is that the Grauniad have got David Squires to do a political cartoon:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/may/15/david-squires-on-theresa-may-meeting-voters-hip-hop-ids-and-aspirational-foxes
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #404 on: Monday, May 15, 2017, 19:41:13 »

The best thing about this election (in admittedly a piss poor field) is that the Grauniad have got David Squires to do a political cartoon:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2017/may/15/david-squires-on-theresa-may-meeting-voters-hip-hop-ids-and-aspirational-foxes

Panel 6 done with Sippo in mind.
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