Poll
Question: Which Party Will You Be Voting For?
Conservative - 54 (30.5%)
Labour - 63 (35.6%)
Liberal Democrat - 29 (16.4%)
UKIP - 6 (3.4%)
Green - 5 (2.8%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Other - 2 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 9 (5.1%)
Spoiled Ballot - 9 (5.1%)
Total Voters: 153

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Author Topic: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?  (Read 195790 times)
mystical_goat

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« Reply #150 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 16:57:09 »

Any evidence for these opinions?

We don't need to read newspapers to know Corbyn is toxic.
Just following his interviews where he is extremely irritable,
PMQs
incoherent statements
he is incompetent
unfit for high office
completely inconsistent among so many other things.
Corbyn himself admitted he didn't want the leadership

Irritable, really!? Doubt you could find a more calm, rational MP. When I've seen journalists repeatedly feed him leading questions and try to back him into a corner or make him say explicit/inflammatory statements, he's responded as previously described. I watched this the other day and whilst Marr isn't Paxman, he tries to back him into a silly corner on a few occasions, all calmly rebutted with rational points which answer the issues. I did like Marr's quip though, something along the lines of, "Well, I'll wait for your 'killer line' then...".

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ghanimah

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« Reply #151 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:02:37 »

We don't have to go far to find evidence of Corbyn's irritability of being questioned under pressure

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jeremy+corbyn+angry
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Sir Cliff Pipehard

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« Reply #152 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:07:04 »

We don't have to go far to find evidence of Corbyn's irritability of being questioned under pressure

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jeremy+corbyn+angry

That's passion

 Wink
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herthab
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« Reply #153 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:14:36 »

Can someone who is planning on voting Conservative explain which of their policies are the ones they find most attractive?
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #154 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:25:50 »

We don't need to read newspapers to know Corbyn is toxic. Just following his interviews where he is extremely irritable, PMQs and incoherent statements tells us all we need to know that he is incompetent, unfit for high office and completely inconsistent among so many other things.

On a personal note I find it an insult that Labour PPCs' will now be knocking on doors asking the electorate to vote for a party with a leader that the Parliamentary Labour party don't agree with; who have tried relentlessly to oust him resulting in numerous cabinet resignations.

Corbyn himself admitted he didn't want the leadership, the Parliamentary Labour party don't want him as leader so why the hell should the rest of the country?

On the contrary, in PMQs Corbyn has outdone May on many occasions leaving her flustered and unanswerable to the RHG's original question.

I agree with that PPC notion though and that is irony but we've seen it all before across all parties. There is nothing new in getting behind the party leader per se in an election campaign.

Things have changed now and I believe he has grown into the role, much more so than Ed Milliband (well that isn't hard to emulate I guess). There is something about adversity which i'm trying to grasp at here. I've seen many examples before. The story of the man so hated yet in time and through hard work and focus people ended up liking the person and their morals etc. I think as well people can only "hate" so much until it becomes tiresome, boring, and repetitive to the point of annoyance. I think also you're looking at it a little too laterally. His party may be a little cold right now but they'll soon change tack. As for public support, there is more for him so sometimes it is possible for the public to want someone who the party necessarily doesn't. I'm not saying Corbyn is the best out there but he is way more competent than May, who let's remember, was not even voted in.
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
mystical_goat

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« Reply #155 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:31:15 »

We don't have to go far to find evidence of Corbyn's irritability of being questioned under pressure

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jeremy+corbyn+angry

I looked at all the links on the first page. These were all which contained anything that may remotely link to your point about supposed 'irritability'....

This is perfectly justified and not a 'snap' IMO.



I would avoid this scrum of hacks too, would you not?



Begins 5:12, Krishnan Guru-Murthy is a well-known cretin and gets a completely appropriate dressing down for his rudeness. He presses and interrupts Corbyn whilst he is answering the questions. Is rightly rebuked. Tries to get Corbyn to say he is a terrorist sympathiser with some isolated words taken completely out of context. Dumb, "Tabloid journalism", as he is told.



Guru-Murthy is a cretin:



This isn't anger it's exactly what everyone on here is saying about the extreme media bias



She's trying to write the headline, "Misguided Corbyn confident of election win" here.

"Can you win the snap general election? Are you confident?"
"....We're very confident in getting support to win the election...."
"Yes or no please?"
"FFS, yes."



Nonsense amongst a crowd who have come to hear, in short conference, specifically about the NHS, which is being murdered. Press would have been asked to stick to topic. He had talked about this issue in about 10 other interviews, in much more detail.

As summed up in the comments.... ""I'm glad you've watched the cctv so carefully, it's absolutely crucial to the nation and the NHS" brilliant"



Very calm



I take it if you think he's irritable then you don't buy into the "he is too nice to be PM/leader etc."? Surely you wouldn't want someone leading a party or country that can't form an argument, and answer back when appropriate?

Regardless I'm yet to see any real evidence of a naturally irritable nature whatsoever, in the thousands of hours of footage of him. All of that junk above is mere proof of the bias in coverage, it's almost total nonsense, especially the titling of the videos.
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Nemo
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« Reply #156 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:43:27 »

I really, really don't want to get drawn into a blocks-of-text war with the Corbyn supporters on here, but I think, sadly to a point as I'm no fan of Theresa May, we're about to experience a perfect example of the simple electoral fact that strength of feeling does not amplify your vote. It's still one vote.

More or less every Corbyn supporter I know venerates the man and seem to be able to find no fault with him (I'm always worried if somebody can't find any fault at all with their favourite politician, but let's not go into that). The problem is he simply doesn't attract people who aren't quite sure about him, and you really, really need to do that in order to win a General Election. You can argue until you're blue (perhaps red) in the face about that being down to the main stream media coverage, but until he learns to play the media game (unlikely after three decades in politics) then he's got as much chance of being elected Prime Minister as I have.

The interesting thing for me is that many Corbyn-Labour supporters would rather see a Corbyn (or generally left leaning) Labour party in opposition than a more "New" Labour candidate actually getting anywhere near power (you could argue that vice versa is also true, but there's less evidence for that). That same instinct just doesn't really seem to exist in the Conservatives, who get vicious as anything in their leadership battles but then unite behind whoever it is that comes out the winner.

Labour are at historic lows in every poll and Corbyn's personal ratings are Michael Foot levels of bad. If you think he is *entirely* blameless for that (again, not saying he's the sole and only reason) then I don't really know how you can expect people to debate with you.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 17:45:58 by Nemo » Logged
Pax Romana

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« Reply #157 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:12:33 »

I really, really don't want to get drawn into a blocks-of-text war with the Corbyn supporters on here, but I think, sadly to a point as I'm no fan of Theresa May, we're about to experience a perfect example of the simple electoral fact that strength of feeling does not amplify your vote. It's still one vote.

More or less every Corbyn supporter I know venerates the man and seem to be able to find no fault with him (I'm always worried if somebody can't find any fault at all with their favourite politician, but let's not go into that). The problem is he simply doesn't attract people who aren't quite sure about him, and you really, really need to do that in order to win a General Election. You can argue until you're blue (perhaps red) in the face about that being down to the main stream media coverage, but until he learns to play the media game (unlikely after three decades in politics) then he's got as much chance of being elected Prime Minister as I have.

The interesting thing for me is that many Corbyn-Labour supporters would rather see a Corbyn (or generally left leaning) Labour party in opposition than a more "New" Labour candidate actually getting anywhere near power (you could argue that vice versa is also true, but there's less evidence for that). That same instinct just doesn't really seem to exist in the Conservatives, who get vicious as anything in their leadership battles but then unite behind whoever it is that comes out the winner.

Labour are at historic lows in every poll and Corbyn's personal ratings are Michael Foot levels of bad. If you think he is *entirely* blameless for that (again, not saying he's the sole and only reason) then I don't really know how you can expect people to debate with you.


I don't think I have ever read anything anywhere on this forum that I so totally agree with as this.

And to respond to Hertha's question re what tory policies any tory voters on here actually agree with.  Like the current labour party membership and Corbyn you're missing the point.  

Yes there are people who positively vote tory (out of self interest, a belief in the free market and in some instances a bizarre deference to their 'betters') but they are never enough to win an election.  The swing vote that wins elections for the Tories are the people who naturally want to vote labour but feel forced to vote Tory out of desperation.

Socialists despise Social Democrats as Tory-lite but the reality is that this is what wins elections.  The country voted in Blair against all shades of Tory leaders.  They voted out Foot, Kinnoch, Brown, Milliband regardless of whether the tory leader was hard Thatcher, soft Major or patrician Cameron.  It's so fucking obvious it amazes me that the labour membership can't (or won't) recognise it.
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Saxondale

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« Reply #158 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:22:58 »

As a Labour member I talk to a lot of other members and see a huge amount of desolation.  We voted in Corbyn, a man I like with ideas I like, but there was little else as an option.  No one offered a credible more centre left option.  Certainly when the 'coup' tried to oust him on spurious bullshit anti membership reasoning.

Owen Smith?  Angela Eagle?  Fuck me, inspire me. Inspire the younger generations, dont throw me a suit with another amorphous blob of politician in it.

Anyway, we're fucked.  We're all fucked.
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herthab
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« Reply #159 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:27:19 »

Can someone who is planning on voting Conservative explain which of their policies are the ones they find most attractive?

Anyone?
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #160 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:37:47 »

Anyone?
Hertha, see Pax Romana post...
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'Incessant Nonsense'

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'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
Hugh Kerrs

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« Reply #161 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:40:38 »

Anyone?
[/quote

The reintroduction of fox hunting Wink
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Hugh Kerrs

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All hail to our dear leader




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« Reply #162 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:42:56 »

Anyone?
[/quote

The reintroduction of fox hunting Wink

and the clamping down on disability allowance
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herthab
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« Reply #163 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 18:49:51 »

Hertha, see Pax Romana post...

That doesn't answer the question. Unless the answer is that people are voting Tory whilst not agreeing with what they will do, or have already done, which is a bit baffling.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #164 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 19:07:01 »

I really, really don't want to get drawn into a blocks-of-text war with the Corbyn supporters on here, but I think, sadly to a point as I'm no fan of Theresa May, we're about to experience a perfect example of the simple electoral fact that strength of feeling does not amplify your vote. It's still one vote.

More or less every Corbyn supporter I know venerates the man and seem to be able to find no fault with him (I'm always worried if somebody can't find any fault at all with their favourite politician, but let's not go into that). The problem is he simply doesn't attract people who aren't quite sure about him, and you really, really need to do that in order to win a General Election. You can argue until you're blue (perhaps red) in the face about that being down to the main stream media coverage, but until he learns to play the media game (unlikely after three decades in politics) then he's got as much chance of being elected Prime Minister as I have.

The interesting thing for me is that many Corbyn-Labour supporters would rather see a Corbyn (or generally left leaning) Labour party in opposition than a more "New" Labour candidate actually getting anywhere near power (you could argue that vice versa is also true, but there's less evidence for that). That same instinct just doesn't really seem to exist in the Conservatives, who get vicious as anything in their leadership battles but then unite behind whoever it is that comes out the winner.

Labour are at historic lows in every poll and Corbyn's personal ratings are Michael Foot levels of bad. If you think he is *entirely* blameless for that (again, not saying he's the sole and only reason) then I don't really know how you can expect people to debate with you.


I wouldn't put myself down as a Corbyn supporter. I'm certainly not though, like yourself, a May supporter. I do think Corbyn is with fault and I think he also realises this. He is however full of passion and is coming across to the normal man as if he cares. Whether he really does or not we can transfer this to every politician in the history of time and we'll never truly know.

Hmmm true you need to attract the undecided but I think we could put that on those undecided about May too. Put them both together and who would most people vote for? On the one hand you have an unelected individual posing as a watery Maggie Thatcher who is the only one believing her own hype. On the other you have a guy deemed too nice to lead a country to stability who probably doesn't believe his own hype. For me May is trying the Iron fist approach but she is really just Lead. Looks tough, but is soft and malleable meaning it's easy to turn around. Corbyn is probably guilty of trying too hard. When he gets it right however he is firm and accurate and puts anyone in their place with hard facts.

See I don't think May plays the media game very well tbh. Does she have every chance of being PM as yourself or is your position actually slightly better? *sic Smiley For example, May was quoted in the media as saying that Jeremy Hunt is a fantastic Health Secretary and that the Tories have invested more in the NHS since they've been in power. When you look at the actual figures, since Jeremy Hunt has been Health Sec. every available piece of data has gone down, the investment has gone down. In fact the only thing that has gone up is.....waiting times! How can a person in her position plainly lie about this when there is so much data readily available to the general public, which totally contradicts what she is trying to lay claim as truth?
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'Incessant Nonsense'

______________________________________________________________

'I'm gonna tell you the secret.
There's a threat, you end it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it.
You smell the gunpowder and you see the blood, you know what that means?
It means you're alive. You've won.
You take the heads so that you don't ever forget.'
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