Poll
Question: Which Party Will You Be Voting For?
Conservative - 54 (30.5%)
Labour - 63 (35.6%)
Liberal Democrat - 29 (16.4%)
UKIP - 6 (3.4%)
Green - 5 (2.8%)
SNP - 0 (0%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
Other - 2 (1.1%)
Not Voting - 9 (5.1%)
Spoiled Ballot - 9 (5.1%)
Total Voters: 169

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Author Topic: General Election - Who's Getting Your Vote?  (Read 52464 times)
RedRag


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« Reply #120 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 11:36:48 »

Indeed, which is why I've stayed off this thread.

I don't understand the need for personal insults and name calling when people have a different political opinion to your own.  Some of the comments are nothing but insulting.
I quite agree.

A forthright competition between ideas is fair enough but play the ball (idea) not the man ("person"Wink)

I would say the likes of Power and PDC or even Cheese can be more divisive than mere Politics though...
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #121 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 11:46:12 »

I will say it again, roughly 500,000 which if they all vote for him in the GE is about a third of what the Greens got last time and much lower than UKIP got.

Party membership/core voter support means absolutely fuck all if the floating voter won't vote for you in numbers, Labour experienced that with Miliband (E) and have not learnt the lesson with Corbyn and will continue to fail to do so until they realise its not student politics or that as portrayed in the Life of Brian.

It could take far less than that:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/how-just-639-people-could-10288346
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bamboonoshoe


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« Reply #122 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 12:57:25 »

In my constituency which was mainly Labour but dabbles with Tories every now and again. It's currently Tory but it's very much an exciting constituency for the neutral as it can easily swing back. Of 45,600 (65%) that turned out last time;

20k voted Tory
16k voted Labour
7.2k voted UK...them
1.3 voted Lib Dem
1.1 voted Greens

Tory gained 5.4%
Labour lost 2.7%
UKIP gained 13.9%
Lib Dem lost 11.5%
Green gained 2.4%

In this constituency I guess many will return back to their old party of choice, with UKIPs decline. Here they aren't all Tories, many were Labour and will probably take around 3k off UKIP. I see the Tories stabilising on their current position with a minor rise. Labour will gain here and if they campaign in the right way they could swing maybe 500 Tory/float voters. which would mean they would only need 500 more votes to edge the Tories. However the Tories will probably gain 1k off UKIP. Lib Dems will gain slightly as some trust is coming back. I think they'll get around 500-700 of the UKIP votes maybe making the 2k mark. Greens again are slow burners (the irony) here but I think they will also gain again and it'll be similar to Lib Dem with 500+, taking them to 1.5k. My projection for UKIP is they'll lose around 5k seats.

So my indicator is something like this.  The Tory/Labour battle will be back to usual and it'll be a close call while the other 3 main party will be squeezed together. What interests me is if you set up as an Inde and gave the right voice you could do quite well in a constituency. you may never win, but you'd have a good time watching the big two scratch for votes and sweat on the results. An Inde (as shown by UKIP, albeit with a lot of cash thrown at it) can easily attain 3rd place here.

My projection for June 8th 2017 is;

Con 20.4k
Lab 20k
UKIP 2.1k
Lib D. 2k
Green 1.4


You may think this is all a bit pointless, but it gives an indicator to how important it is for people to go out and vote. Especially in constituencies that have changeable control and seemingly many floating voters. Only 2000 voters changing their mind at the Ballot box or being convinced by a little extra campaigning can change an outcome. A 5% swing here is massive in terms of gaining power. Can Labour do it here? I'm not certain but if they target the working demographic here and use the campaign policies that Corbyn is then there is no reason why it shouldn't be a very close call. I also feel this Nationally too. It won't be a walk in the park for the Tories and if they don't bother to campaign well in marginal seats then it could well be a hung parliament.


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« Reply #123 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:01:48 »

Apart from the hundreds of thousands who voted for him as leader you mean?

Keep being told what to think. Moron.


This is what I don't get. Why is someone a moron for disagreeing with you? For having a differing opinion?

Why is everyone who voted Leave branded thick, rascist etc? Why is every Tory voter insulted? That's not the way the Left improve their chances of winning anything. Engage people, understand why millions of people are voting the way they vote. Understand why normal, everyday people feel let down by any one of the particular parties.

Debate and discuss and if you disagree, fine. That doesn't make them less important than you, or their vote worth less, or their opinion worth less. Extreme views of any kind tend to be damaging, but there is no right or wrong when voting, despite the bollocks a small minority like to shout about.
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Chubbs


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« Reply #124 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:07:53 »

coming from a total political novice, why the massive split of opinion on Corbyn?
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chalkies_shorts


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« Reply #125 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:18:05 »

This is what I don't get. Why is someone a moron for disagreeing with you? For having a differing opinion?

Why is everyone who voted Leave branded thick, rascist etc? Why is every Tory voter insulted? That's not the way the Left improve their chances of winning anything. Engage people, understand why millions of people are voting the way they vote. Understand why normal, everyday people feel let down by any one of the particular parties.

Debate and discuss and if you disagree, fine. That doesn't make them less important than you, or their vote worth less, or their opinion worth less. Extreme views of any kind tend to be damaging, but there is no right or wrong when voting, despite the bollocks a small minority like to shout about.
Spot on. Win the argument. Shouting down people doesn't really work. Let people speak and win by words. Its interesting the most intolerant people I come across appear to vote for the supposedly  more tolerant things.
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« Reply #126 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:22:16 »

coming from a total political novice, why the massive split of opinion on Corbyn?

I think the anti Corbyn stems from the in party shenanigans that didn't want him there. This has been driven by the media and thus many will take what ITV, BBC, Sky say as gospel truth...

imho, Corbyn seems like a great man with great ideas. Maybe he is a bit different and some are quite scared of that. Some feel he is more of a protester than a leader. Many people don't like change, however recent events (EU Ref.) would say differently so maybe Corbyn does have a chance. A chance at least to squeeze the Tories nuts and strengthen their own position.

I find it very strange though that so many can be split on Corbyn for being "too nice" "not a proper politician" or "he's too different" when so many people seemingly really liked Farage. 2.4m of them seemed to like what he said and yet everytime I saw his chortling smug face and a pint of beer (because, you know....he's a man of the people) all I wanted to say was shut up you horrible man!

As you can tell i'm not a fan of Mr.F

This is why I find it baffling that apparently many don't like Corbyn. I think though there are many that will agree with his policies, if they bother to read them. He's also doing what most of the parties didn't have last time out and that is he actually has some policies.
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Arriba


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« Reply #127 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:29:40 »

As a trade union member i had a vote on the labour leadership.
I voted Corbyn because if you look beyond the vile vendetta against him he is a thoroughly nice chap with ideas that would be better for the nation and world if we embraced it.

I will never understand how anyone could vote Tory but they do. I agree that educating people is more productive than abusing them. In some cases that is like flogging a dead horse though.
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pauld


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« Reply #128 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:56:54 »

In this constituency I guess many will return back to their old party of choice, with UKIPs decline. Here they aren't all Tories, many were Labour and will probably take around 3k off UKIP.
Many of those ex-Labour Kippers won't go back to Labour, at least not at this election which is being pitched as a Brexit election. They'll either vote Tory as a pro-Brexit vote or just not vote. This is why this election is so worrying for Labour (and one of the reasons why May called it), they risk being wiped out in their heartlands by former core Labour voters who voted Leave and won't vote Labour if they see the party as being likely to backslide on that. Which is why Corbyn ordered his MPs to support the Article 50 vote, to the fury of many of them and the metropolitan liberals (small l).
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Chubbs


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« Reply #129 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 13:57:45 »

Thanks bamboo and arriba. I really am trying to take a vested interest in politics now, as my wife said, if not for your own future, think about the boy's futures, and she's right if i want the best for my boys i can't carry on sitting back and start doing my bit.

Another novice question. Why does Corbyn's own party have a vendetta against him? I recall at the last election they were trying to oust him but i didn't really read into it.
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Berniman
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« Reply #130 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:06:09 »

I voted Tory last time around because there was no valid opposition, not one that I could see running the country anyway.  I am undecided this time at the moment, though am still in the Tory camp at the moment, I am not as far in that camp than I was at the last election.

Corbyn is a better option than Milliband IMO, but still not somebody that I can see running the country.  I am open to being convinced though, as I really would prefer to vote Labour.

Thoroughly nice chap sums it up for me, I don't want a thoroughly nice chap taking us out of Europe and taking us forward.  I want a strong leader with new ideas and a clear vision.  I fear that Corbyn is not that, but I also see that neither is May.
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« Reply #131 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:12:09 »

As a trade union member i had a vote on the labour leadership.
I voted Corbyn because if you look beyond the vile vendetta against him he is a thoroughly nice chap with ideas that would be better for the nation and world if we embraced it.

I will never understand how anyone could vote Tory but they do. I agree that educating people is more productive than abusing them. In some cases that is like flogging a dead horse though.

100% this.
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Simon Pieman
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« Reply #132 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:12:13 »



Another novice question. Why does Corbyn's own party have a vendetta against him? I recall at the last election they were trying to oust him but i didn't really read into it.

Stems from the change in the party to new Labour under Blair and then Brown. Simply put, a lot of the MPs aren't aligned to his political views
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hobodan


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« Reply #133 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:51:52 »

Is it just me or are the modern day liberals the most Intolerant people 😂. What happened to debate and free speech? Shutting a persons opinion down and being abusive because of your hurt feelings isn't democratic.  Who'd have thought we'd have fascists masquerading as 'liberals'.....
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bamboonoshoe


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« Reply #134 on: Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 14:55:37 »

I voted Tory last time around because there was no valid opposition, not one that I could see running the country anyway.  I am undecided this time at the moment, though am still in the Tory camp at the moment, I am not as far in that camp than I was at the last election.

Corbyn is a better option than Milliband IMO, but still not somebody that I can see running the country.  I am open to being convinced though, as I really would prefer to vote Labour.

Thoroughly nice chap sums it up for me, I don't want a thoroughly nice chap taking us out of Europe and taking us forward.  I want a strong leader with new ideas and a clear vision.  I fear that Corbyn is not that, but I also see that neither is May.

I can see your points totally. I had always been a Lib Dem voter, chiefly because I was brought up on core Liberal values and very much have them today. Fairness for all, kindness to humanity, etc. Doesn't exempt me from being a total idiot at times though yet that comes out of frustration of others, however I am learning that not everyone thinks or agrees with me. It's certainly a time honoured thing and a valuable lesson at that. Any way, last time out I voted Green, which in my constituency some would say was wasted/non influential/non tactical, but you have to vote for the policies you believe in I guess and if you don't then you're not really basing upon anything other than a personality. Anyway, enough about me...

What kind of things would convince you to vote Labour? Putting the person aside, Corbyn. The policies he has put forward do work for the working demographic whilst still maintaining some core Liberal values towards immigration (that's another story because it really is the biggest media stirred myth going, especially here. check out the UNHCR website for the data, its astonishingly low in terms of numbers and the cost to the UK taxpayers is something silly like 2p per person per year. When someone chucks their 5p change from a coffee on the floor, I remind them that they can't moan about immigration as that 5p would cover their cost twice over. As I said that's another story). The policy promises are encouraging and I've yet to see anyone else come out with anything near that. Delivering on it is always the Tory counter argument but every party is guilty of this. You have to have a set of policies to get people interested otherwise no one would campaign and then none of us would really vote, except the stoic Tory and Labour voters.

Your point on recognising both May and Corbyn as "not the people to lead us out of the EU, are very valid indeed but maybe instead of looking at the individual (I know we need a leader to look at and be proud of etc.) maybe look at the actual party and ask yourself "Which of these parties do I think can lead the nation through a Brexit negotiation?" It's tough, we have to put all the personalities aside and chiefly look at the parties. Only you can truly decide which party that is but also looking beyond, you have to look at who will maintain and help us grow again as a nation in our juvenile independence after the route and agreements of Brexit are more clear and we have a better idea of where the nation will end up. For me personally, Corbyn offers a warming hand to the rest of the EU and a charm offensive could well be what is needed. It's going to be a sensitive exit and there is absolutely no point in trying to play hard ball when we are the ones that have decided to leave. This I fear is what May is missing the point on. She's trying to take the position of this negotiation as the lead role. No one has any respect for her in the EU because at the end of the day, the UK has acted like a spoilt child that wants to "go home from the proverbial theme park" and still eat 12 bags of Candyfloss and then complain about it. I'm not against leaving but if you're going to request to leave, you can't expect to be given all the same agreements and pick and choose what you keep and so on.

I know I've rambled on, I always do....but I'd say Berni, take a look at the policies being offered by ALL the parties. Look at how they may enhance your own life and then take a wider look at how the country would fair if that party were in control of Brexit. If there are too many crossovers then I would say discard because for most voters clarity is the key component and parties should look at this as the best way to obtain a vote from the electorate.
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