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Author Topic: Trust look to buy the CG  (Read 105153 times)
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #930 on: Wednesday, March 6, 2019, 19:26:04 »

Power may pull the strings, but don't forget that Black and Arbib still have debentures over the assets of the company. If anyone can fuck us, it's those two. No doubt they'll be extremely pleased to hear that the company will soon (potentially) own a readily saleable asset that could satisfy their charges.

Hadn't thought about that.... not too sure how that might play out, can you refresh us on the terms of the debenture?
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Oaksey Moonraker


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« Reply #931 on: Wednesday, March 6, 2019, 19:53:54 »

Hadn't thought about that.... not too sure how that might play out, can you refresh us on the terms of the debenture?
The outstanding loan to Black was about 2m contingent on the sale of the club or ground redevelopment. Recall Lee Power convinced Black on taking over from Jed that it was not a sale as he had funded Jed 's original takeover

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RobertT


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« Reply #932 on: Wednesday, March 6, 2019, 23:50:17 »

and it is against the club, os would assume no exposure to the Trust and comes from Power/club when either one triggers to repayment.
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #933 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 10:48:12 »

I have heard various figures about the Andrew Black debenture varying from 2m to 10m that appear to be based upon the club profiting from stadium expansion in the future.

As Rob says that must be the club itself liable and not the Trust, surely.

Also as there was an NDA so I am guessing we will never find out the exact amount oe on what conditions unless the NDA was time limited, could be a coincidence what with all of this coming almost exactly 6 years after Black sold the club to Jed with Powers money.

We also don't know the exact wording as to what rates will be paid and on what triggers but I am guessing it will be dependant upon the "club" (its owner) benefiting financially from any future development.
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pauld


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« Reply #934 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 12:33:23 »

The outstanding loan to Black was about 2m contingent on the sale of the club or ground redevelopment.
Got to be way more than that, Black put in way more than 2m.
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Peter Venkman


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« Reply #935 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 12:37:23 »

Got to be way more than that, Black put in way more than 2m.
See my post above, I have heard figures as much as 10m which is roughly the figure that Black says he wrote off when selling the club, makes sense for him to get most of his money back he thought he was investing. Andrew Black is not a financial idiot.
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It's a grand old team to play for, It's a grand old team to see, And if you know your history, It's enough to make your heart go whoa-oh, We don't care what the other teams say, What the hell do we care, For we only know that there's gonna be a show, And the Swindon Town will be there....
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« Reply #936 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 12:56:24 »

Something happened with Black & Arbib's debt when Power bought the club.

The old holding company (Swindon Football Holdings) had a debt of 9,000,000 owed to them by the club (Swindon Town Football Company). This disappeared from the balance sheet on the 2013 accounts, which was the reporting period after the debentures were registered.

There was talk at the time that Black & Arbib would see their money back upon a future sale of the club, so I'm guessing that was part of the deal negotiated with Power at the time.

Essentially Black & Arbib are still owed money and a contract exists somewhere, but we'll never know what the extent of that is. I'm sure the Trust would need to know about any potential debt that will be secured against the asset they will (may) be purchasing, but no doubt there'll be non-disclosure provisions.
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Simon Pieman
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« Reply #937 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 13:05:29 »

It was reported by the media, the club and also by Black himself, that the majority of debt was written off as part of the deal to sell the club. There was an amount, circa 2m if I recall correctly and what OM refers to above that is still owed to them on the books.

There are also 4 outstanding debentures held by Black and Arbib which would indicate this amount is secured (again the fact it was secured was also documented). Those debentures specify they are secured on all assets present and future so presumably they'd be secured on the club's half of the ground once owned.
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« Reply #938 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 13:20:20 »

I wonder if Power would be 'loaning' this money to stfc so that the football club & trust will own the stadium or if it will be bought and owned by Power on behalf of stfc, so he will get his money back upon sale of stfc and his 50% share or get repayment of his loan.

Assume there would also have to be some rental agreement with stfc so the upkeep of the stadium and running repairs were funded.
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pauld


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« Reply #939 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 13:25:47 »

Assume there would also have to be some rental agreement with stfc so the upkeep of the stadium and running repairs were funded.
The club already own the buildings and are already responsible for repairs to it. It is the footprint that is being bought, not the buildings
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RobertT


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« Reply #940 on: Thursday, March 7, 2019, 15:12:33 »

It was reported by the media, the club and also by Black himself, that the majority of debt was written off as part of the deal to sell the club. There was an amount, circa 2m if I recall correctly and what OM refers to above that is still owed to them on the books.

There are also 4 outstanding debentures held by Black and Arbib which would indicate this amount is secured (again the fact it was secured was also documented). Those debentures specify they are secured on all assets present and future so presumably they'd be secured on the club's half of the ground once owned.

It is in the Accounts, as you say.  Any debt known to the business should be listed in them, even if contingent.  The evidence suggests Black wrote off the debt and has secured an amount against the clubs assets.  Power is the primary loanee, then you have the Black amount and then some short term liabilities which would be amounts due for invoices etc.

As to the upkeep - it's that exact issue that makes this good news.  Nobody, for years, could be convinced to invest the money to even repair, let alone develop, because the lease expired or was expiring.  Far easier to invest when the buildings are secure, not when the access to them may be removed in the near to short term!
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« Reply #941 on: Friday, March 8, 2019, 13:33:00 »

The club already own the buildings and are already responsible for repairs to it. It is the footprint that is being bought, not the buildings

At the moment yes but will that not fall to the new stadium management company in future if new stands are erected
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #942 on: Friday, March 8, 2019, 14:22:33 »

The club already own the buildings and are already responsible for repairs to it. It is the footprint that is being bought, not the buildings

I recall back in the early noughties, the club and SBC had a row about who was responsible for the surface on the "road" past the CGH to the back of the Arkells.  Club claimed it was SBC, SBC said it was the club.

It seemed to get resolved as the Town were playing Gills and so they got a good price for some tarmac  Wink
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RobertT


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« Reply #943 on: Friday, March 8, 2019, 14:24:18 »

Would depend how they are funded - as things stand the new JV is simply replacing the Council as Freehold owner, the Club remains a Leaseholder and owns the structures.  One of the big plus points of the DR stand when it was constructed was that it was modular and could be moved if we ever decided to get a new home.
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horlock07


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« Reply #944 on: Friday, March 8, 2019, 16:05:42 »

Would depend how they are funded - as things stand the new JV is simply replacing the Council as Freehold owner, the Club remains a Leaseholder and owns the structures.  One of the big plus points of the DR stand when it was constructed was that it was modular and could be moved if we ever decided to get a new home.

I know that I am like a broken record with this but there is next to no chance of such a stand ever being relocated, the only reusable bits are the seats and frame, steel costs very little and it would likely cost more to dismantle and transport than to just buy new (setting aside the costs of testing to make sure it is still meeting modern standards and avoided corrosion), likewise the other 90% of the structure would be only good for the crusher!
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