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Author Topic: Trust look to buy the CG  (Read 17640 times)
Private Fraser


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« Reply #60 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 10:01:28 »

I found the tweets a bit hard to get the gist of tone wise.

It seemed to me the Trust were saying give Power the chance to sort things out. Here is what we, the fan backed trust, would like to happen... (e.g. transparency on accounts, etc).

In the meantime here is what we'd like to do regardless....(atmosphere, CG ground purchase, etc).
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Anyone go care to comment?

At first I thought there was going to be a bit more of an aggressive stance taken. But given the lack of information out the club I guess it would have been a foolish opening stance really, why knacker any potential future relationship before its had a chance.

Ball is in Power's court and I suspect a lack of engagement will follow.
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I went along.  You are pretty much spot on, really.

The Trust's line was to try to engage with Power (no direct contact thus far) and to encourage him to improve communication with the fan base (more transparency, publish full accounts, etc).  All good sensible stuff but communication is a two-way thing and, if Power won't engage, nothing much is going to happen IMO.  The Trust seem serious about trying to buy the CG but not much detail given about how the money would be raised.  They have put a lot of info on their website but I haven't had time to look for it yet. [Edit - Here's a link to it: http://truststfc.tv/trust-stfc-agm-the-full-downloadable-information-pack/ ]

Probably around 60 - 70 people there.  So unlikely to cause Power any sleepless nights.  Trust needs to grow in size and strength.  
« Last Edit: Friday, March 17, 2017, 10:05:04 by Private Fraser » Logged
horlock07


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« Reply #61 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 10:09:30 »

We will see what unfolds.

If Power is the bad man in all of this, then surely he would also make a bid for the CG? That is a very valuable source of income.

Hence the ACV designation giving the Trust first dibs, I assume that if they can raise the money to meet the Councils valuation then Power will be erm.... Powerless to stop them buying it.

In terms of the wider outcomes should the Trust proceed and buy the ground the issue almost becomes one of Mutually Assured Destruction, if the Trust own the ground they need the clubs rent to get their money back, however likewise if the fans have clubbed together to buy the ground it would be commercial suicide for Power to fuck them around whilst his core consumer base have their hard earned tied up in the ground as that would almost guarantee the fans walking away? It nothing else it will force Power to the table one way or the other.

I still think that its a good idea, dependent upon the Trust managing to get enough fans to contribute to get a broad investment in the project, if it transpires that most of the money comes from a few individuals that would concern me greatly as they would essentially control our destiny to a degree (and investors tend to either want interest or the money back) and never underestimate the ability of voluntary organisations to start a fight in an empty room, especially once money and MBE chasing is involved.
« Last Edit: Friday, March 17, 2017, 10:23:41 by horlock07 » Logged
Wobbly Bob


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« Reply #62 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 10:24:20 »

I went along.  You are pretty much spot on, really.

The Trust's line was to try to engage with Power (no direct contact thus far) and to encourage him to improve communication with the fan base (more transparency, publish full accounts, etc).  All good sensible stuff but communication is a two-way thing and, if Power won't engage, nothing much is going to happen IMO.  The Trust seem serious about trying to buy the CG but not much detail given about how the money would be raised.  They have put a lot of info on their website but I haven't had time to look for it yet. [Edit - Here's a link to it: http://truststfc.tv/trust-stfc-agm-the-full-downloadable-information-pack/ ]

Probably around 60 - 70 people there.  So unlikely to cause Power any sleepless nights.  Trust needs to grow in size and strength.  

The info pack is an interesting read, some good ideas in there on how the money could be raised.

And I may have missed something, but Sir Andrew Black???
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« Reply #63 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 10:56:03 »

The info pack is an interesting read, some good ideas in there on how the money could be raised.

And I may have missed something, but Sir Andrew Black???
Talking of Black have any of the Twitterati on here asked him directly what the situation is with regards to the money owed to him & how it becomes payable? It seems to be a bit of a grey area on here as I've seen a few different scenarios that have been talked of. I'm wondering how forthcoming he would be with a response as he's long since out of here & may well wish to divulge the answer if somebody were to ask the question.
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« Reply #64 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:47:26 »

Hence the ACV designation giving the Trust first dibs, I assume that if they can raise the money to meet the Councils valuation then Power will be erm.... Powerless to stop them buying it.

In terms of the wider outcomes should the Trust proceed and buy the ground the issue almost becomes one of Mutually Assured Destruction, if the Trust own the ground they need the clubs rent to get their money back, however likewise if the fans have clubbed together to buy the ground it would be commercial suicide for Power to fuck them around whilst his core consumer base have their hard earned tied up in the ground as that would almost guarantee the fans walking away? It nothing else it will force Power to the table one way or the other.

I still think that its a good idea, dependent upon the Trust managing to get enough fans to contribute to get a broad investment in the project, if it transpires that most of the money comes from a few individuals that would concern me greatly as they would essentially control our destiny to a degree (and investors tend to either want interest or the money back) and never underestimate the ability of voluntary organisations to start a fight in an empty room, especially once money and MBE chasing is involved.
In my opinion it's absolutely key that the club is on board and engaged if the Trust does proceed with buying the ground otherwise it could end being a pointless exercise. If the club shows no interest then we could easily end up in Coventry playing at Northampton situation where the club just go elsewhere as one thing Power is is stubborn and I don't think he'd have any hesitation ditching the County Ground if he pushed into a corner.
If the club engage then I would happily donate but a the risk of a ground without a club wouldn't be something I would put any money towards.
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« Reply #65 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 13:55:19 »

Read the PDF, seems quite clear the trust don't see any benefit in turning power into the enemy, but acknowledge his faults and show a willingness and need to work together for the benefit of the club. I've just signed up and donating more than I probably can afford, because it seems like something
Worthwhile. I can only hope other fans see it the same way
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« Reply #66 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:03:11 »

Read the PDF, seems quite clear the trust don't see any benefit in turning power into the enemy, but acknowledge his faults and show a willingness and need to work together for the benefit of the club. I've just signed up and donating more than I probably can afford, because it seems like something
Worthwhile. I can only hope other fans see it the same way

I'd agree with that. I've generally supported the aims of the Trust in the past without really getting involved, didn't contribute the Stratton Bank fund because I couldn't really see the point covering an empty stand, but buying the CG is a genuinely excellent idea and, if the council are to sell, the Trust are better owners than anyone else who would bid. I'll be contributing.
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horlock07


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« Reply #67 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:03:43 »

In my opinion it's absolutely key that the club is on board and engaged if the Trust does proceed with buying the ground otherwise it could end being a pointless exercise. If the club shows no interest then we could easily end up in Coventry playing at Northampton situation where the club just go elsewhere as one thing Power is is stubborn and I don't think he'd have any hesitation ditching the County Ground if he pushed into a corner.
If the club engage then I would happily donate but a the risk of a ground without a club wouldn't be something I would put any money towards.

Its all a bit of a grey area, as the thing we don't know is how much notice the club have to give the ground owners that they wish to terminate the lease?

Likewise giving it a bit more thought its entirely in Powers interest to remain ambivalent about the whole thing for now, as that would place doubts in the Trusts mind, allow the ACV created period to lapse and then he could step in and buy it?

The point I was making is a) if fans have put their hands in their pockets and Power decides to sod off its going to immediately alienate the fanbase even more as they will have a direct financial interest and I suspect depart the club in droves? and b) the Trust would only need the club to occupy for 4ish years and the money is made back, remembering that the club are on a full repairing lease so the Trust don't actually need to spend a penny in that time without commitment from the club? Could the club either find somewhere to play locally in that period or secondly find some land, design a stadium, get planning permission, raise the finance and then build the ground in that period?

I'd agree with that. I've generally supported the aims of the Trust in the past without really getting involved, didn't contribute the Stratton Bank fund because I couldn't really see the point covering an empty stand, but buying the CG is a genuinely excellent idea and, if the council are to sell, the Trust are better owners than anyone else who would bid. I'll be contributing.

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« Last Edit: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:08:43 by horlock07 » Logged
Private Fraser


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« Reply #68 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:09:20 »

They're currently on a monthly rolling lease but, presumably, if the Trust (or whoever) were to take ownership of the CG, they would want to negotiate a longer lease with sensible 'get out' clauses.

Currently, Power's options for taking the Club elsewhere are quite limited aren't they?
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« Reply #69 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:16:48 »

Horlock, you are assuming the Trust would seek to keep the contract the same. They could for example reduce the rent and not look for much ROI. Depends who end up funding it I suppose

(apologies if they said this was the case in the info)
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horlock07


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« Reply #70 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:29:11 »

Horlock, you are assuming the Trust would seek to keep the contract the same. They could for example reduce the rent and not look for much ROI. Depends who end up funding it I suppose

(apologies if they said this was the case in the info)

They might well do that and it would make sense with a co-operative tenant, I would expect they would want the club signed up for a period of time to make such a commitment.

That's where my concern starts however is that if the purchase ends up being funded by a few wealthy individuals it rather ceases to be a 'fans initiative'?


Currently, Power's options for taking the Club elsewhere are quite limited aren't they?
 

Possibly so, although with the way we are playing at the moment the local rec could suffice in a few years time?
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« Reply #71 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:31:41 »

Don't I remember a club like Brentford's ground was fan owned or something and the owner basically forced through a sale.

I'm surprised the council are willing, as 1m straight up compared to a regular 200k income a year -but then this is SBC and as someone else has said they would sell their granny if they thought they could get a few quid.

I would hope that any purchase will include covenants so if x person put's up 40% but is happy for it to be trust owned they are unable to call in debt and thus become the new majority owner and force a sale.   Would want to see TrustSTFC hold a 50% + 1 share so they are majority holders and cant be forced to do anything members do not agree on
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Private Fraser


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« Reply #72 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:37:00 »



Possibly so, although with the way we are playing at the moment the local rec could suffice in a few years time?
,

Yes.  If Reg's doom-mongering is to be believed, it won't take long.  Smiley
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horlock07


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« Reply #73 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 14:41:51 »

Don't I remember a club like Brentford's ground was fan owned or something and the owner basically forced through a sale.

I'm surprised the council are willing, as 1m straight up compared to a regular 200k income a year -but then this is SBC and as someone else has said they would sell their granny if they thought they could get a few quid.

I would hope that any purchase will include covenants so if x person put's up 40% but is happy for it to be trust owned they are unable to call in debt and thus become the new majority owner and force a sale.   Would want to see TrustSTFC hold a 50% + 1 share so they are majority holders and cant be forced to do anything members do not agree on


I think Griffin Park was fan owned, but I think the club own it now? I only know this as I had some (very limited) involvement on behalf of a 3rd party regarding the planning application for their new ground, which includes a shed load of new housing and some rather wide ranging assumptions to support the land assembly process for the site.
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ghanimah


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« Reply #74 on: Friday, March 17, 2017, 16:27:53 »

Don't I remember a club like Brentford's ground was fan owned or something and the owner basically forced through a sale.



Chelsea is a better example of where we could be, the freehold of Stamford Bridge and the naming rights of "Chelsea FC" is held by the fans via Chelsea Pitch Owners. The fans then lease this back to the club at a peppercorn rent. The club obviously is in very lucrative real prime estate territory which could have been simply sold off for development.

However the fans' arrangement has prevented a multi-billionaire Russian from relocating the club away from the Bridge.
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